VTT GC Turbos Review (Updated)

[Rob@RBTurbo]

@Rob@RBTurbo, it may be difficult to separate out someone's bad behavior, with my desire to build a reliable 600whp car. Two different subjects that don't conflate. I suppose the Internet is a difficult conversation medium at times. Then again, I imagine 25k turbo lifespans is good repeat business.

In my case, I understand that the target of longevity has as much to do about how I build the car and use it, as the capability of the turbos themselves. But I understand that may have been missed in my commentary.

Filippo

Filippo,

I'd imagine you are too wise to use some of the other forums- but if you had you'd seen that initially the OP was put through the ringer on "check this, check that" (ie. bov leaks, induction leaks, compression tests, no boost building, don't pull downpipes yet, etc etc) when the audio clip he'd provided initially was clear as day what was going on. Now if it were a one/two/maybe three-off to the vendor, perhaps it would be understood, but this scenario has played over and over with them so many times the initial complaint should've immediately resulted in an understanding that it's just another GC that bit the dust. You must understand that sometimes these things can lead to someone's "bad behavior". This guy duked it all out and took on the labor himself, I give him props for that too. Anyway it is all worked out and it is history now.

Regarding your goals (and I'm certain you've have been there and done it all) at this point in your life you may have just a tid bit too much Camry driver blood running through your veins to consider hopping in bed with the N54. Hopefully you understand that this platform is going to tax you generously at every turn, whether turbos/engine/trans/maintenance/you name; it it is going to be lots of TLC as this is a very hungry platform EVEN at the power levels you are looking to make (keeping in mind you are looking for a trouble free 100k miles!).

On the N54 Turbo upgrade front count on waiting at least 1 year before purchasing any specific product (that has not changed since it went into production), and inquire with the vendor at that time about how many failures they've had with it and I will tell you it should be very close to 0% failure rate at that point in time.

It is clear that you really want to do your due diligence on your purchase and hey that is cool, but do not rely on the forums alone as you may have noticed it can easily take 1+ years before the masses tend to find out about the problems going on with these products.

Rob

 

[fmorelli]

@Rob@RBTurbo, it's not really Camry blood. Some folks appreciate building for endurance and performance. Not just performance. Thanks for the rest of the feedback, though. Most appreciated.

Filippo

 

[langsbr]

I find it funny the OP posted his "review" here. After reading this thread, it's apparent he left out all the details of his disastrous attempt at installing an intercooler. He doesn't know how to install and intercooler, doesn't know how to do a boost leak test, and doesn't understand the DME wastegate functionality. Only one turbo had broken blades and his assumption was that one turbo had blades break off and ruin the other turbo. On a different forum his first subject line was already blaming the turbos before any diagnosis at all. He admitted in other posts to running 32 psi all day long. 32 psi with a boost leak is a recipe for disaster.

It was WELL above and beyond for Chris & Tony to fix these for free. However, I think it was misplaced kindness, because when this guy reinstalls the turbos and still has a boost leak and screws these up, he will be right back to blaming VTT again. Let's start the clock.

 

[fmorelli]

Filippo,
I'd imagine you are too wise to use some of the other forums

@Rob@RBTurbo, I am certainly not too wise. If I was too wise I'd figure out how to create infinite time. For cars, I read this forum, the E89 forum, the E89 Facebook page, the BMW Diesel Facebook forum, and I run two other forums myself. Those are the regulars, not to mention the 4-5 forums I frequent to support several other BMW's that are constantly getting work here. So my apologies in advance, but please allow that I have to pick where I use my reading time.

but if you had you'd seen that initially the OP was put through the ringer on "check this, check that" (ie. bov leaks, induction leaks, compression tests, no boost building, don't pull downpipes yet, etc etc) when the audio clip he'd provided initially was clear as day what was going on. Now if it were a one/two/maybe three-off to the vendor, perhaps it would be understood, but this scenario has played over and over with them so many times the initial complaint should've immediately resulted in an understanding that it's just another GC that bit the dust. You must understand that sometimes these things can lead to someone's "bad behavior". This guy duked it all out and took on the labor himself, I give him props for that too. Anyway it is all worked out and it is history now.

I thanked you in my previous post, @Rob@RBTurbo, for providing this information to which I was unaware.

I find it funny the OP posted his "review" here. After reading this thread, it's apparent he left out all the details of his disastrous attempt at installing an intercooler. He doesn't know how to install and intercooler, doesn't know how to do a boost leak test, and doesn't understand the DME wastegate functionality. Only one turbo had broken blades and his assumption was that one turbo had blades break off and ruin the other turbo. On a different forum his first subject line was already blaming the turbos before any diagnosis at all. He admitted in other posts to running 32 psi all day long. 32 psi with a boost leak is a recipe for disaster.

@Rob@RBTurbo, was this information not relevant to your story (quoted above), or it happened on some other forum for which you are too wise to use, as you like to say? Curious if you knew this, didn't think it was relevant, or something else. Thanks.

The OP showed up here to post a "review" which was really a "I'm going to get my lawyer on this bitch-slap" introductory post, and then he left. Classic forum drive by. It's the kind of stuff I appreciated in 2001 when the Internet and its interactions were pretty new. Now folks have been at it for 25 years, @Rob@RBTurbo, and it is common knowledge that when one drives into a new town, walks into a crowded restaurant and start screaming at the top of one's lungs, one is likely not going to have a good stay. And one is probably not coming back to that restaurant, either.

In a "community" (which this is not ... this is a forum, because it is open and anyone can walk in and out and do whatever they want, take what they want, harpoons whomever they want with almost zero impunity), one earns a reputation which supports them when they have issues in that community. Showing up with loaded guns saying, "hear me out and know that my lawyer is right behind me" doesn't go very well. But I understand that it has been my profession to run communities since the 90's, and for others it is not. This is why I don't tell people how to build turbos ... it's not my business, and I am wise enough to know better.

Filippo

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

Happy easter guys.

Regarding the Intercooler story yes initially the OP (not realizing quite yet that GC's fail left and right) was wondering if that was to blame as it was recently installed, but it checked out as A-O-K. He also did a compression test, too, which also checked out A-O-K. He made some comments in the process and he and langsbr seemed to have been butting heads, but the OP was the one at the end who was correct. Ultimately the OP is not a novice mechanic but also not a platform pro either and was looking for some help, seems like he was being harassed quite a bit for guarding his hunch and that again didn't help matters. But as stated above it turned out everything (aside for the turbos) checked out, and their howl was a dead give away from the beginning- and OP was correct that he was yet another one with the defect.

Also as many are giving kudos for admitting to a defect, what you do NOT realize is that is was attempted to be hidden had we not exposed it... and the only reason we exposed it was because VTT had called us out on them have better quality (this is all well documented as well). Also for the record IMO this defect was not isolated and it affected all units and it will eventually get them all with the same failure mode of a broken turbine blade- which is NOT a common failure mode whatsoever. This is a very large debacle, but it happens from time to time in the industry and there should be some LARGE lesson here about kicking out very high doses of new unproven turbochargers to the world. All said and this behind, I DO agree that VTT is NOW going above and beyond now to squelch the scenario; and quite frankly they do not need to do this at all- only helping the guy out quite a bit more than they quoted initially would've worked out for all just the same.

Anyhow I do find it funny that most get excited about new products, "let us know how it goes!" "report back" "we want longtime reviews" "etc" "etc" and usually they only hear the crickets as things go bad and then are left in the dark about what had happened. OR when/if one comes about doing as such he is lynched for his etiquette in the process. Perhaps this is why many do not share these sorts of things, and why you are still here scratching your head about what is what.

Rob

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

Showing up with loaded guns saying, "hear me out and know that my lawyer is right behind me" doesn't go very well. But I understand that it has been my profession to run communities since the 90's, and for others it is not. This is why I don't tell people how to build turbos ... it's not my business, and I am wise enough to know better.

Filippo

Filippo,

Well circa 2014-2015 we had a relatively small sample defect issue contained to about 15 sets of RB Turbos; perhaps you will enjoy this one and also understand that we feel how "they lawyer right behind me" doesn't go well either:
https://www.bummerboost.com/showthread.php?71022-RB-class-action

"Hello all, after being contacted over, and over, and over, and over again by people who have been fleeced by RB, and his known defective turbos. The choice has been made to assemble a small class action law suit for people to recover what they have lost in replacing multiple defective units the manufacture was knowingly selling. We will be seeking damages for labor charges, and down time. We have been in touch with other large shops, and tuning companies, who have all lost large amounts of money replacing faulty RB units over the past year. If anyone wants to be added to the suit, drop an email to [email protected] and we will let you know how to proceed.

Thanks!"

Neil,

I understand your point. But I must ask you, can you point me to one post where Rob takes responsibility for his failed units? Even ONE! Instead we see him selling people upgraded drains as a fix, telling them warranties are void if they run VTT, or stock inlets, machining errors, the list goes on, and on, and on. Yet we have more people posting about 2-3-4 sets of bad turbos, all while Rob tells them tough $#@!, we will rebuild them, if they fail again, we will rebuild them again. Advan has had to publicly denounce their affiliation with RB. RB's response, I made 400K this year so far, then to announce a new line-up of products. You feel this is a appropriate behavior for a vendor that has sold hundreds of known defective units? We do not, we are not standing for it any longer. I have passed this on to my finance who is an attorney. I am not involved, but she has been brought up to speed on the RB issue, and also believes there is a case here. There will be no Attorney fee's, this is all being done pro bono to help victims of the RB faulty turbo scam recover some of what they lost. Again the email is [email protected]

That you received negative rep for posting that you had two sets of turbos fail within 30 miles is very telling of what is wrong with this platform. If this was an isolated issue, it would be swept under the rug, actually Rob is still trying to sweep it under the rug, but there are MANY people sharing your story, they have lost thousands. We have proof RB knew his turbos were defective, and instead of stopping production, and fixing the issue, he continued to sell, and ship defective units, for MONTHS. If people do not want to buy from us for calling the issue to the carpet, by all means do not. We do not rely on the N54 for our livelihood as RB does, this is why we are ok with possibly losing some N54 business to bring this issue to light. RB sells product to one platform. He could not possibly stop production to figure out what was wrong with his units, he would go out of business if he did. Instead, he continued to collect your money, and used it to build new products instead of offering refunds for defective products, if you want to defend these actions, go right ahead.

As stated above, will be GLAD to lose some N54 business to people who are blinded by marketing, and continue to support a vendor who is FLEECING people selling them KNOWN defective turbos. If this helps the platform in the long run, by holding RB accountable for taking peoples money, and leaving them high, and dry, but costs us a few sales, ALL for it.

The hate is expected, and we do not care. That someone is finally holding him accountable for the BS, and it is not well recieved, is no shocker. Head over to RB's site, and pick up a set of his turbos. Enjoy

The issue is not warranty, the issue is, the turbos were KNOWN to be defective BEFORE shipping. He knew he had an issue, did not know what it was, and instead of stopping production to fix it, he continued to build, sell, and ship defective units. Yes that is actually a criminal act

Perhaps you may see why that legal portion makes no bother to myself in this particular scenario? IMO it couldn't have happened to a better person and we have found extreme pleasure seeing how karma works for some, and in this case about 15x over. Fortunately for he I have a TOUCH more couth and will not be orchestrating such a class action, but I'll sure continue to get a little chuckle with every failed GC email or call that continues to come in... something tells me this season we are going to see them dropping like flies.

Thanks,
Rob

 

[Torgus]

So the lawsuit tony's wife was going to run with...nothing ever came of that? Shocking.

Chris is VTT still paying customers to review their products? Just curious if you guys stopped that yet or if it is still an on going practice.

Happy Easter everyone. Time for some day drinking!

 

[buster84]

The OP showed up here to post a "review" which was really a "I'm going to get my lawyer on this bitch-slap" introductory post, and then he left. Classic forum drive by. It's the kind of stuff I appreciated in 2001 when the Internet and its interactions were pretty new. Now folks have been at it for 25 years

I'm sorry, but people do have lives and work. I dont have the time to consistantly be on the forums, i already wasted a lot of time dealing with my labor of the problems diagnoising the car to the end result. I'm very thankfull for VTT and i plan to update the thread once they arrive and continue on updating as it goes. Like i said in my first post i never asked for a free repair, I just wanted the defect fixed (if that was really the cause) and yes i probably did jump to the conclusion it was the defect on the defect without a proper diagnoises, but i was just going off how it was missing a fin or two exactly how vargas described it which just reinforced my original hyposthesis. Since then I actually looked up and learned more ways on how turbos fails so its a good learning experience overall. Also on the topic of not posting on the forums, i also havnt been bothering VTT about the turbos, I'm not emailing them consistantly asking for answers ect... I'm leaving them alone and letting them do what they do best and yes they are already in there hands.

Vargas could have simply taken my offer but instead went above and beyond that and if this is his new bussiness model you can bet for sure that he'll be keeping people around and gaining new customers fast. Vargas is just as a more difficult position because the products he sells are very expensive and its not simply repairing a cheap $5 part and because of that this is why aftermarket turbo company's all have less than steller rep. I was thinking recently about extended warranty's and maybe that is something Vargas could consider offering to its customers for an extra cost on top of the turbos, something that helps give the buyer another piece of mind for future problems for 2-3 extra years down the road.

Everyone looks as defects different in regards to different products and I just look at defects a little different than others do because of how i was trained. I used to work for apple back in the days and they always took care of defects outside of warranty if the customer insistanted and didnt walk away. Remember the Iphone antenna issue, well eventhough it was taken care of durring the warranty they still took care of it after the warranty expired because it was a defect that sometimes never showed up, or took longer to.

All of our personalities are shaped around where we live. No one will be alike and we all have different ways to getting things done. Some have the ability to restrain themselves and not get into arguments, while others like to be silenced and would rather avoid the conflict so they just walk away while others fight for it. When the turbos crapped out on me I had alot of shit going on and it happened at some really bad timing. I was in the middle of my e93 sale when i had to back out of the sale because i wouldnt have a car to drive so i lost out on that sale and it took me 2 months to find someone willing to pay my asking price especially since convertibles are not the easiest to sell. I also have ADD and because of that i tend to get angry faster than the normal person.

What you need to understand is that the internet is the internet, its endlessly evolving and people move from platform to platform all the time. You're agurment about how it's changing is a complaint that reminds me of those who come out and make fun of peoples spanglish without knowing there background, where they are from or how normal or how abnormal they might be, there age, there original language ect... Without speaking to them face to face it's very easy to dudge someone online without knowing anything about them.

 

[cmsolarbeener]

Wow I read the complete threat, I am shaking in my boots as I have a set of this turbos installed in my car about 4 years ago. I had a very bad experience with VTT when I purchased the turbos, he made good on the concern I had at the end.
My Turbos are 4 years old and they have worked very good had no issues with them, then again I only have them tuned to max 18lbs of boost. I feel lucky that this turbos have lasted this long and working very well.