Obviously the OPs price for being a public jackass is now known. In your case you might have been a $1,000 down, but at least you wouldn't have douchebag tattoo'd all over you like this guy and his ambulance-chasing lawyer on retainer.
Filippo
VTT GC Turbos Review (Updated)
- Thread starter buster84
- Start date
Filippo
Lol, I drive an old BMW, so there's some d'bag built right in to my situation. Oh well.
Well at least he got taken care of. Deserving of warranty or not.
Having played with all the twins, I've seen all the brands fail, and I think all the big players have good customer service. VTT has the worst stigma associated with the owner but after working with him and many of his customers for years now I think it stems from people who don't own his products who got in an argument online. Love them or hate them, just like motiv they push this platform for new records solving problems as they go. Or at least exposing them lol. How many companies have dedicated N54 race cars?
Having played with all the twins, I've seen all the brands fail, and I think all the big players have good customer service. VTT has the worst stigma associated with the owner but after working with him and many of his customers for years now I think it stems from people who don't own his products who got in an argument online. Love them or hate them, just like motiv they push this platform for new records solving problems as they go. Or at least exposing them lol. How many companies have dedicated N54 race cars?
I appreciate this post. I know: I've put turbos on hold while I figure out which way is up. Part of that is hybrid issues (with just not enough data on what has any real staying power), part of it is the forum signal-to-noise ... it's so hard to aggregate information to an informed decision, and part of it is I want to stick with twins, but there are some curious advantages to a down single for those wanting to stick with a stock "look".
My view on VTT, FWIW, is that Tony projects a large persona on the forums ... for customers that's actually a good thing, because the bigger they are the harder they fall - what I mean is, he has a very big reputation he's put out there and its in his best interest to protect it. But that said, really, with VTT it is the crank they turn that speaks for itself. They are pushing pushing pushing to move forward. With that, as a customer, comes with being a bit more on the bleeding edge (risk is risk), but iteration and innovation means people seriously set on learning (which means dealing with mistakes, as learning doesn't happen without that). As a customer, coupled with the reputation factor it's a reasonable bet.
All that said, I still haven't decided what to do on the turbos. As a good friend of mine says, "the good news with the N54 platform is, if you wait, it's always evolving."
Thanks for your insights,
Filippo
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Rob@RBTurbo
Lieutenant
This can be good of course but also bad as eventually you need to get some real world stats on the current product offerings and their respective failure rates. If things are always changing/evolving then the clock basically restarts in that regard, and what the future holds is always up in the air for the new product. If you want a sure thing your best bet is to lock into a product that you know has a proven history to not have any issues. There are some good products out there in this regard, however your power goals may truly dictate your ideal path to be taken. IMO if you are looking for a solid everyday 650+rwhp, your answer is clear in getting away from ANY Bolt-On style twins and into the ST scene.
Rob
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With what turbo(s) do you think can last at that power for those miles? Seeing as the stock n54 turbos can barely last 100k it seems, I would be interested in your thoughts.
600 whp and 100k? You're most likely looking at some big Garretts for that out of a 3 liter, and get a side order of good luck while you're at it. We have several people making good power at 50k+ on upgraded turbos but it really depends on driving style, maintenance, attention to detail etc. You guys have to have some honesty with that. 10k racing or with an aggressive driver is far harder on them than 30k commuting with an occasional rip up to highway speeds, so mileage in and of itself isn't going to be everything. I consider myself hard on turbos, but it's nothing compared to Tony "lets make 950 ft lbs and see what happens Vargas".
In general, shaft speed is very highly correlated with life expectancy. When you run parts hard you absolutely will get decreased lifespan. If you want OEM reliability and huge power output... you're going to need a little more displacement to play with. Or you're going to need some big lazy compressors that are loafing along at 25 psi, and have the lag and spool to go with that.
Efficiencies in the flow path can help quite a bit, as can fuel that's worth actually burning (i.e. not ACN91). A good tuner is worth their weight in gold. As it is though, boost is cheap, so the average response is to turn it up, don't think about back pressure, compressor maps, efficiency, heat, oil change intervals, etc. This is why I try to talk to customers about how they really want to drive the car, what they use for fuel, their mods and their expectations both with power and reliability.
Chris
In general, shaft speed is very highly correlated with life expectancy. When you run parts hard you absolutely will get decreased lifespan. If you want OEM reliability and huge power output... you're going to need a little more displacement to play with. Or you're going to need some big lazy compressors that are loafing along at 25 psi, and have the lag and spool to go with that.
Efficiencies in the flow path can help quite a bit, as can fuel that's worth actually burning (i.e. not ACN91). A good tuner is worth their weight in gold. As it is though, boost is cheap, so the average response is to turn it up, don't think about back pressure, compressor maps, efficiency, heat, oil change intervals, etc. This is why I try to talk to customers about how they really want to drive the car, what they use for fuel, their mods and their expectations both with power and reliability.
Chris
Sorry not that it helps much but 100k was shorthand for my car being at 30k and wanting to see it make 100k with upgrades. My point is, to build the car so it lasts. My comment about driving neanderthal was probably a somewhat derogatory way of saying beating the hell out of the car. I get the impression that a lot of these cars live a rough life, street-life wise. My car is not a track car, nor a 1/4 mile drag car.
Maybe my goal is optimistic. It's more a target than anything else. So @Chris@VargasTurboTech you don't think with good fueling, ignition, ethanol, and someone with the right tuning chops one can get to a longevity reliable 600whp? I noted your 50k+ comment.
I guess I don't see a lot of discussion around reliability; more, how much juice one can squeeze out of the lemon. Building for endurance is appealing to me.
Thanks,
Filippo
Maybe my goal is optimistic. It's more a target than anything else. So @Chris@VargasTurboTech you don't think with good fueling, ignition, ethanol, and someone with the right tuning chops one can get to a longevity reliable 600whp? I noted your 50k+ comment.
I guess I don't see a lot of discussion around reliability; more, how much juice one can squeeze out of the lemon. Building for endurance is appealing to me.
Thanks,
Filippo
Longevity build? Use the highest octane you can, be vigilant with maintenance (boost leak checks, oil changes, etc.), be gentle on her with respect to warmup/cooldown, and invest in more than just turbos to make the power you want. I.e. easy breathing intake/exhaust, head porting and a cam wouldn't hurt, etc. Then slap some GC's on there (or stage 3) and enjoy your car. That's my idea of a good street/longevity setup that I'll be employing on my own car. In the future look to some articles about my take on a street car setup.
Chris
Chris
Sorry I wish I had a good answer; I don't at this point. My targets are more directional in terms of where I'd like to go. I'm hoping that this year flushes out a bit more and I get comfortable with possible choices. I'm focused on moving to flex fuel (which includes fuel system upgrades), ignition, chassis stiffening, and suspension upgrades right now. With some luck we'll do something in the turbo department this coming winter, with a Motiv twin clutch and the VTT single barrel which are both sitting on the shelf waiting.
Filippo
Rob@RBTurbo
Lieutenant
With this thinking let's establish that the OP's set of GC Turbos were marketed as ultra reliable and high power capabilities (ie. Game Changing 800+whp) and were ran for less than 1.5 years/10,000 miles (at around 600whp levels) before a very well known defect knocked them out of commission. Then to follow it all up you have been dogging him out for pages for being discontent with how it turned out, YET in the same breath YOU'd expect 100k miles out of your purchase? Hell he may have been VERY content with 25-50k miles. Anyway all ran together not quite adding up here...
Rob
@Rob@RBTurbo, it may be difficult to separate out someone's bad behavior, with my desire to build a reliable 600whp car. Two different subjects that don't conflate. I suppose the Internet is a difficult conversation medium at times. Then again, I imagine 25k turbo lifespans is good repeat business.
In my case, I understand that the target of longevity has as much to do about how I build the car and use it, as the capability of the turbos themselves. But I understand that may have been missed in my commentary.
Come to think of your comments, maybe they do conflate. Tony having stood behind a full replacement to a second owner two years down the road makes a good case for considering VTT turbos. Wouldn't you say?
Filippo
In my case, I understand that the target of longevity has as much to do about how I build the car and use it, as the capability of the turbos themselves. But I understand that may have been missed in my commentary.
Come to think of your comments, maybe they do conflate. Tony having stood behind a full replacement to a second owner two years down the road makes a good case for considering VTT turbos. Wouldn't you say?
Filippo
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