No turbo being pushed hard will survive long. At least single turbos reduce the install times drastically and that's your best option when you fear the install/uninstall. If you want a reliable fast car with a warranty buy a new m3/m4.
Upgraded T04 turbos for less $ than stock! Wtf? Link inside
- Thread starter Mightbaal
- Start date
No turbo being pushed hard will survive long. At least single turbos reduce the install times drastically and that's your best option when you fear the install/uninstall. If you want a reliable fast car with a warranty buy a new m3/m4.
I have to say people knock off designs all the time no one gets mad at the victim vtt is the victim this post was about a good find for someone and turned into speculation with unbiased claims. Vtt has been in turbo game long time and never done what being accused of here. And honestly even if they did would you rather pay and take chance or have a reputable company test and do quality control and stand behind their product. Worse part is they aren't doing this people used to turn in cores to get turbos from all these places they all made it public knowledge when they started getting castings but that doesnt mean they started using crap internals if anything reliability has gone up every yr. Hopefully I dont get bashed but just had to say something as an entrepreneur myself.
Exactly. Certain places in China will buy one and reverse-engineer a product just to bootleg it, let alone if they already have the specs available.
Even FrankenTurbo made the same points in a FB post where someone said similar things - there's turbos that look just like his, doesn't mean they are. Shit you can find turbos that have the same spec as all the RB turbos too if you look hard enough. You can find Chinese clones of everything for these cars (even uncommon stuff like "SmarterTurbo Dual Port BMW BOV"), it doesn't mean the original product is made in China just because a competitor says it is.
Rob@RBTurbo
Lieutenant
There maybe claims to the same wheel sizes, etc. But there are distinctive qualities to the housings, it is fairly easy to differentiate OE housings from the China housings, etc.; anyone with a bit of knowledge on hardware can tell the differences externally. With the el cheapo cast chinese craze in effect, it is very clear that some are using them by closely looking at the housings/chra's/etc.
The end result here as that there are stances vendors can take who are dealing with the china stuff:
1) We buy the core china housings.
2) We have china machine those housings.
3) We source our own wheels.
4) We source our own internals.
5) We build and balance the final product.
Whether #1 and #2 is true we know for certain... China is doing it. Which means they then know which wheels (#3) to use for their replicated builds.
Whether #4 and #5 is true is what is could differentiate them... then you just have to hope they are doing it better than China is with their otherwise identical product. As stated prior VSR balancing reports should help determine who is doing what... company logos on a housing are irrelevant.
Rob
Take what rb says with a grain of salt, this is what he does 24/7. He tries to discredit every competing vendor by making claims with zero facts by them because his sales are shit. Yet he’ll reply to this saying he sold 10,000 turbo sets last week, yet he’s never posted proof of said sales and i never see anyone running his turbos. It doesn’t help that his turbos are known for smoking right out of the box
So Rob gave a list of 5 items in his post. Why don't you get specific instead of generalizing: which of the 5 should we take with a grain of salt, per your recommendation, and what's your specific reasoning for any of the 5 you recommend?
Filippo
Personally, I find issues with all 5 and kinda think Rob does frequently shit on competitor's products just to do it (especially VTT stuff), and I'm even a user of some of Rob's stuff.
Tony, Chris, Pure, MMP, and the dude from FrankenTurbo all say they don't use China for the turbos, whether it be housings (VTT says they use somewhere in England, Pure and Franken use OEM housings AFAIK, there are yet to be any MMP1k knockoffs so there's no accusations there yet but I'm sure *someone* will do it eventually) or internals, and all claim to balance in-house. It really boils down to one person's word vs. another's. Why are we to believe Rob over ALL the other vendors? Especially when like I said, 1:1 Chinese clones of his products are out there too.
So to play the same game:
Option A) He's sourcing his products from China, so he thinks that's the only way to do it
Option B) He's sourcing his products from China, so he assumes other vendors are too since they offer better bang-for-buck
Option C) He might have super high-tech, cutting edge balancing equipment that no one has ever seen pictures of so he balances in-house, but he still sources everything from China so he just wants to drag other's down into the mud with him
See how this can be a dangerous game to play? Considering what can happen to a US company for lying about the way their products are built and where they're built, combined with the fact that I've seen pictures of equipment for turbo assembly from literally every other vendor but Rob (not casting any doubt at him, just saying - his website hasn't been updated in 11 years and his online presence is 100% limited to passive-aggresive or snarky forum posts for the past few years, there's never any in-shop photos, videos, or even new products coming out that display how they're made) and it gets pretty close to either slander (most likely) or the pot calling the kettle black because the pot painted itself with some rustoleum (less likely, because I doubt anyone uses China for their higher end turbos on the N54 nowadays.)
Rob@RBTurbo
Lieutenant
There is so much nonsense in this one single post- it would take at least an hour to correct. To each there own thoughts, it is the internet where anyone can speak. However it is clear you have a very much to learn about all these things you think you know about this platform segment.
Rob@RBTurbo
Lieutenant
We average about 4 N54 turbo sets sold per week which we don’t claim to be an astronomical amount. But factor in week after week, year after year, for 8+ years now.. that would amount to quite the heap of smoking turbos really quickly one would think? Certainly a solid and well thought out post you’ve got on display here.
I started to correct it and than realized my free time is worth more. Significant miss information in that post.
If you guys would be so kind as to correct me where I'm certainly wrong I would genuinely appreciate it actually. Especially if there's a whole bank of information I'm misinformed on, the more I know about the platform the better - I'm being genuine.
The things I pointed out just seem odd to me and I figured if I held up a mirror it would show some people why some of us are disinclined to believe Rob's constant dissing and to believe other vendor's when they're asked to clarify, and then actually follow up with it.
Rob@RBTurbo
Lieutenant
Think you missed the point in that somehow you have deduced a ton of radically incorrect information across all categories seemingly out of no where, meaning that either you are really just up in arms to be a troll or you simply have no ability to understand certain things. In short clearing everything up for you would require a dedicated thread and lots of hours, thus it would be best yet to not waste our or anyone else's time straightening things out that you clearly do not know. Perhaps several years of re-reads will help you get it all sorted, not sure, but it is a good place to start. Or you can take this with a grain of salt, that works too.
PS: As for the "I'm being genuine" tone it is well taken along with the poop/dumb rating of the post you quoted... in that it seems extremely genuine.
We have only shared accurate information, that we can assure you many appreciate. However when this information challenges some others preferences some can get their panties a bit in a bunch. We are not hurting for the love of everyone, haters can hate, we do not mind. It happens, it is whatever, it is the internet. And to the rest who appreciate the insight, you are welcome.
Rob
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Actually, I think you missed several points I was making, especially the ones that seem to have offended you. But I'll actually break them down for you rather than just skirt around what's in question, because that's part of what frustrates people like me about your posts, despite the fact that you have some excellent products:Think you missed the point in that somehow you have deduced a ton of radically incorrect information across all categories seemingly out of no where, meaning that either you are really just up in arms to be a troll or you simply have no ability to understand certain things. In short clearing everything up for you would require a dedicated thread and lots of hours, thus it would be best yet to not waste our or anyone else's time straightening things out that you clearly do not know. Perhaps several years of re-reads will help you get it all sorted, not sure, but it is a good place to start. Or you can take this with a grain of salt, that works too.
PS: As for the "I'm being genuine" tone it is well taken along with the poop/dumb rating of the post you quoted... in that it seems extremely genuine.
Most importantly, let's address what probably made you most mad and cause you to resort to name calling: I was not claiming my list was fact at all, nor do I even believe it is. Once again, I was holding a mirror up to you, saying the same things about you that you say about others. I typed it to demonstrate how one person's word vs another's doesn't mean shit without proof, and that people should trust the vendor who's products are being discussed if that vendor is chiming in. Thank you for proving my point, even if you felt the need to be rude to a repeat customer in order to do it.
Moving on;
A: Again, I was not saying the things I listed about your turbos are true. I was demonstrating how, by me saying them - especially without any solid evidence - its not only hearsay based off of one person's word, but is a classic example of correlation not causation, and that due to the circumstantial evidence already being discussed (meaning there's clones of your turbos out there too) some people will be easily mislead. There's Chinese knockoffs of Gucci suits, Chinese knockoffs of prescription drugs, and even Chinese knockoffs of other "OEM" BMW parts. That does not mean all of those things are originally made in China, but some people believe they are and spread that misinformation, regardless of the power of their voice. A large amount of kids with Autism were given vaccinations, some idiot said the vaccines caused the autism, Jenny McCarthy did some "research" and now there's a whole group of people who believe that. What you often do is also the same method shady politicians use to "prove" their points. You say one thing, people point to references proving you wrong, and then you ignore the evidence to the contrary (I'll happily find some quotes for you where these vendors say they aren't using Chinese turbos if you'd like, rather than just saying "you have months and years of reading you can dig through if you want"), and either start talking about other points not being discussed or in the case of your earlier post in this thread you pull out a Trump-ism by basically saying "ANYONE can tell the difference if they're smart, anyone who disagrees with me is obviously a dummy".
B: Actually, all it would take to clear things up for me and everyone else, is you posting a couple of pictures. Maybe demonstrate how you can tell these turbos are the same as all the VTT turbos based solely off of the product pictures? Maybe you could post some pictures of your competitors orders from China as your proof that VTT, FT etc order their turbos from China? Maybe post a picture of a Chinese vendor confirming that they make the turbos for those guys? I'm not even asking you to post pictures of your own personal in-house balancing and machining equipment to prove that you DONT use China for anything. Let's just see that everyone else DOES use China, yeah? And thanks again for the super high-brow diss, but next time you feel like avoiding posting any proof/evidence/confirmed facts, you could just save everyone's time and call whoever you're replying to a "retard" instead of wasting so many keystrokes. It's clearly what you're trying to say, and what you posted instead has a nice heaping dose of irony considering you have no idea of my background or how long I've been with the platform.
C: I don't see how the poop emoji has anything to do with anything lol. I thought your post full of rude comments, underhanded insults and an utter lack of information paired with your ignorance towards my background was a dumb post. I don't decide which emoji's go with which ratings. And I definitely don't see how you could deduce that I don't want to learn anything just based off the fact that I don't take kindly to you insulting me while still dodging my questions.
You've certainly shared information, and many people certainly do appreciate it. Whether or not all the information is accurate is up for debate. Whether or not the people who appreciate you saying "those are the same as VTT turbos" appreciate it out of confirmation bias or not is also up for debate. You may not "hurt for the love of everyone", but your attempts to hurt your competitors certainly seem to be in your best interest.
As far as me being a "hater", like I said I've owned several of your products and spoken to you personally before so that's not the case at all here. And regarding your statements of "challenging my preferences", I actually don't have a preference towards any one vendor. You all do certain things better than others. I also wouldn't be surprised if at one point, one of those guys placed an order from China in the past either while starting up or just to test the quality before moving on. And to be completely honest, I wouldn't even give a shit if a housing or exhaust manifold still was cast in China before the rest of the manufacturing process was finished. What matters to me personally - and to many others - is the power and reliability of the final setup. Not whether it's a re-manufactured, machined OE housing or a brand new one designed specifically for better performance and longevity. Honestly, I think what bothers you so much is you have this certain unfounded belief everyone but you is using completely/mostly MiC turbos while still outselling you due to higher performance, but your preference is for reusing the OE housings for one reason or another.
What I mostly care about in regards to your posts, and why I quoted you in the first place? The unnecessary lying, slander, name-calling, and avoidance of answers. You act exactly how you used to claim Tony acted back in '10-'12. While I enjoy the products of yours I have and appreciate the (factual) information you've given this platform, your attitude in the past year+ has turned me away from ever mentioning you when another vendor provides a similar product. You've come up with some cool shit, made some decent products, and if what you say is true then you have a cult fanbase. Why do you need to be a dick, act like a know-it-all, and try to tear down others who are trying to improve the platform? Especially if you don't care what others think?
Rob@RBTurbo
Lieutenant
Monday morning decision debacle:
1) Respond to this long winded all over the board forum post.
OR
2) Respond to about 15 emails asking for turbo quotes, and send out a couple sets of turbos.
Tough decision.
We can assure you we have no fear of slander, libel, etc.; as all we state is 100% fact. We are not mad whatsoever but allocating our time where it matters is what is most important to the business. Keep in mind you are asking for a TON of things at once not some morsel of information, which would require a thesis length response which would also involve the interworkings of many other competitors. This of course would offshoot into many other debates in that we are not being truthful as we are mentioning competitors out of fear, etc. There is not much to win in all of that when said and done. Hopefully that makes sense for you as ultimately there is just too much you have going on here that really will result to nothing by addressing in any way, shape, or form.
All said if you feel you need to know some answers it maybe best for you to get a notepad out and just give us a call sometime at 314-630-8950, we'd be happy to address anything you think we have incorrect, or things you may not be sure about yourself; and then you can push it back to the internet accordingly after performing whatever checks and balances you wish to thereafter. Until then rest assured you have many of your thoughts jumbled up on many matters.
Rob
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Monday morning decision debacle:
1) Respond to this long winded all over the board forum post.
OR
2) Respond to about 15 emails asking for turbo quotes, and send out a couple sets of turbos.
Tough decision.
We can assure you we have no fear of slander, libel, etc.; as all we state is 100% fact. We are not mad whatsoever but allocating our time where it matters is what is most important to the business. Keep in mind you are asking for a TON of things at once not some morsel of information, which would require a thesis length response which would also involve the interworkings of many other competitors. This of course would offshoot into many other debates in that we are not being truthful as we are mentioning competitors out of fear, etc. There is not much to win in all of that when said and done. Hopefully that makes sense for you as ultimately there is just too much you have going on here that really will result to nothing by addressing in any way, shape, or form.
All said if you feel you need to know some answers it maybe best for you to get a notepad out and just give us a call sometime at 314-630-8950, we'd be happy to address anything you think we have incorrect, or things you may not be sure about yourself; and then you can push it back to the internet accordingly after performing whatever checks and balances you wish to thereafter. Until then rest assured you have many of your thoughts jumbled up on many matters.
Rob
Definition of irony - making a long winded post on the forum about how you are so busy you don't have time to make a long winded post on the forum, at the same time exhibiting the exact behavior you're attempting to weasel out of. Not addressing any questions, just the same ole rhetoric.
You could probably respond to his post, but that would take away from the time you spend trashing other vendors. Between that and "getting all those orders out" you probably don't have much time left in the day, do you?
Exactly. And like I said, it's really a bummer cause Rob has done some excellent things in the past. But I guess a lot of us are destined to become grumpy old men stuck in our ways at some point, right?
I'm sorry Robert, then I'll keep it short for you this time I guess. I was under the impression my shorter posts made me appear unintelligent and misinformed about the platform (to you, anyway) and you seemed confused by my last couple posts so I expanded on them for you. But I digress, here you go:Monday morning decision debacle:
1) Respond to this long winded all over the board forum post.
OR
2) Respond to about 15 emails asking for turbo quotes, and send out a couple sets of turbos.
Tough decision.
We can assure you we have no fear of slander, libel, etc.; as all we state is 100% fact. We are not mad whatsoever but allocating our time where it matters is what is most important to the business. Keep in mind you are asking for a TON of things at once not some morsel of information, which would require a thesis length response which would also involve the interworkings of many other competitors. This of course would offshoot into many other debates in that we are not being truthful as we are mentioning competitors out of fear, etc. There is not much to win in all of that when said and done. Hopefully that makes sense for you as ultimately there is just too much you have going on here that really will result to nothing by addressing in any way, shape, or form.
All said if you feel you need to know some answers it maybe best for you to get a notepad out and just give us a call sometime at 314-630-8950, we'd be happy to address anything you think we have incorrect, or things you may not be sure about yourself; and then you can push it back to the internet accordingly after performing whatever checks and balances you wish to thereafter. Until then rest assured you have many of your thoughts jumbled up on many matters.
Rob
1: Once again, you're completely ignoring both physical evidence and dismissing others'statements that hold equal weight as yours just to "prove" your point. You keep saying that what you state is a fact, simply because you're saying it. No evidence or even a tiny shred of proof = slander and libel for sure at worst, at best just a bald-faced lie if you admit you have no evidence (which at this point would be fine and is honestly welcomed.) None of those are a good look for a company, especially when you keep attacking your own customers. This is probably reason #1 why you sell over 3x less turbos in a week than inquiries you answer on a Monday morning (per you.) It turns logical thinkers off.
2: I don't (nor does anyone) need "a TON of information or a thesis statement", let alone even a paragraph if that's too much to ask of you. As I said before, a simple picture or two showing how we as customers can be completely reassured those Chinese turbos are 100% one and the same as your competitor's turbos is more than enough. That's all any of us need. Also again, I don't even care if you want to post pictures of your own "superior" setup either.
3: I'm well aware of what the differences in certain metal alloys are, where the raw materials for them often come from, and even how they effect Turbo performance, so no thesis needed there either.
4: Like I said I'm a repeat customer of yours, so I've reached out to you in several forms before actually - including over the phone -and never had anything explained much further than "do it this way, just trust me, cause I know." At best you're self-referential when coming up with reasons for your answers. Kinda like you keep doing now. So I'm not sure what another phone call would solve, especially if you think I'm either an unintelligent idiot who doesn't understand stock photo forensics like you do or if I'm somehow just a "hater" despite having supported your company and being a user of your products.
The only thing I'll rest assured of after this thread is that you don't care about the community you supposedly serve, and that you'd rather resort to personal insults than provide "obvious evidence."
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