N54 head work

[The Convert]

My assumptions come from a variety of experiences where control devices operating cutting machines do not necessarily produce superb results. The base knowledge of how to get power out of a head is regardless of whether done by hand or by machine - and then bearing out that you've achieved that objective.

It's one thing to port a head for poets ... by hand ... or by machine. It's another thing to be a stud at it. Problem is art is science with too many variables. What you call black magic, I call complexity. Can someone program a solution? Sure. Can someone program an superb solution? Sure, with iteration and lots of experience. Just because something is digital doesn't make it great. Digital follows analog.

Sorry I used tool path as short hand to say that, access paths for tools seems to me to be tricky business on a head. Plenty of heads get CNC'd - I'm just saying I imagine that's not simple, and the lack of development iteration results from a lack of market which would drive that kind of development maturity.

Filippo

Of course being digital on its own doesn’t make it great, but it does make it repeatable and accurate...far more repeatable and accurate than by hand. No one would argue that the end result isn’t dependent on the skill and knowledge of the person responsible for the process(hand or machine). The repeatability/consistency, though, depends on the method/equipment. I do believe that it’s possible to do more with the CNC for head work though. For instance, a machine will have a much easier time trying to accurately control a long ball nose end mill deep in a runner than a human will. I do, however, completely agree that this community does not have any market pull whatsoever compared to others out there.

I have to say, your responses seem like you’re finding personal offense in my opinion of hand vs CNC porting. I personally don’t care what you do, and know that you’ll get more than solid results either way as long as the person knows what they’re doing...and he sounds very skilled and experienced.

 

[fmorelli]

Not personal at all. I believe you were the one that started the commentary by saying you were a process engineer at an aerospace company? So I assumed you did so to qualify your commentary based on your experience? Or did I misunderstand? I merely replied with my experience, in part, so you had a better idea of where that was coming from. Your comment - "black magic" - how would you read someone telling you that "black magic" was your basis of thinking? No I don't take it personally - I think you're misinformed. I don't take that personally. I'm not sure why you ended up by saying you personally don't care what I do ... I didn't think you did care personally. Why would you? I'm lost by what seems like projection.

That said I agree with most everything you said in the above response - yes more repeatable, yes more control on the bit IF one has done the iterative work to sort those issues out (it's not all math, but the math definitely helps!). Ultimately a well-executed CNC head would be fantastic, if it existed. I definitely agree with that.

Anyway ... not trying to get in a pissing match ... and if I spoke out of line, my apologies. I've just had a lot of experience where people confused technology and process with implicit quality. Maybe that came out in my commentary, and that would make sense.

 

[Hydra Performance]

Gents, keep in mind that OEM S54 (and indeed N52) heads come fully CNC ported from the factory now, along with LS7 heads. I'm sure there are many others as well, but those are the ones I can think of off hand. I doubt that core shift and such are issues with modern (lost-foam, etc) casting techniques so the fact that you have mass-produced CNC heads now says a lot about its effectiveness, and by examining said ports there really isn't any need to hand-blend/smooth anything either... Just my .02

 

[Coupes66]

Any update on the progress with the head mods

 

[WOT808]

Did you get any flow bench data from your ported head @fmorelli ?

 

[yuli8466]

The reason you see some peeps running upgraded valve springs on stock cams is because at higher boost (I'm sure these peeps have build engines too) it becomes easier for the valves to float/bounce at higher rpm. Still might as well spend a little more and get cams I say. I've said it before and I'll say it again, cams + head(work) on my specific setup were good for >20% more throughput, which is HUGE. I've said it before and I'll say it again, N53 > ported N54 and my results attest to this...

@Torgus,
HL cams are fine on a stock bottom end. That's what I'm running, and have been running for the past 9500km without issue. Xavier grenaded my 1M trans on Saturday while we were doing a filming shoot, but that's another story for another day...

is there anyway to use 19T turbo (N54 head) to install on the N53 head? my exhaust turbine manifold can be removed like vtt gc

 

[fmorelli]

Did you get any flow bench data from your ported head @fmorelli ?

Sorry this project got hung up with some unfortunate circumstances with the guy porting. I'm still waiting to get it back.

Filippo

 

[mikeseli]

is there anyway to use 19T turbo (N54 head) to install on the N53 head? my exhaust turbine manifold can be removed like vtt gc

That will depend if the throat diameter is 34.8 to 36mm, you should be good to construct a new top manifold and attach to your lower section. The stock OEM N54 throat is 32.6 to 32.9mm.

 

[ShocknAwe]

is there anyway to use 19T turbo (N54 head) to install on the N53 head? my exhaust turbine manifold can be removed like vtt gc

I'd recommend getting in touch with Omar and look into sending them your turbos if theyre amenable. My thoughts are that (IF...) the dimensions match up close... they could fusion weld your turbine to their proprietary N53 turbofolds.

No clue if this would save you any money whatsoever over buying matching turbos and selling your current 19T setup though.

@Hydra Performance

 

[JBacon335]

Best way would be to get Hydra HP800s with the head from them all in one shot but maybe they could do an adapter plate or something if you want to reuse what you have

 

[yuli8466]

would buy an high cam instead of N53 , looks like much easier way

 

[fmorelli]

I'm not sure I understand the logic in the high cam. Even with a ported head the cam helps only so much. You can't suck a hurricane through a straw - that's the N54 head. It's stock CFM is great for making a small frame turbo car super responsive and smooth. Polar opposite to what one wants to make bigger power, IMHO.

Filippo

 

[yuli8466]

I'm not sure I understand the logic in the high cam. Even with a ported head the cam helps only so much. You can't suck a hurricane through a straw - that's the N54 head. It's stock CFM is great for making a small frame turbo car super responsive and smooth. Polar opposite to what one wants to make bigger power, IMHO.

Filippo

N53 head need to buy an new turbo set

 

[JBacon335]

Exactly, I'd rather work on the pathetic head flow before even thinking of a cam. The stock cams will seem much more aggressive with a higher flowing head. This is how all the LS engines are such great performers. Even the LS1 head was equivalent to an aftermarket aluminum head at the time they came out. That with a relatively mild cam allowed a great rpm range and torque. It crosses over for all engines. They are all just air pumps. If this N54 lets go the junkyard replacement is getting an N53 head and stock cams as 7k is fine for my DD

 

[Milan]

Exactly, I'd rather work on the pathetic head flow before even thinking of a cam. The stock cams will seem much more aggressive with a higher flowing head. This is how all the LS engines are such great performers. Even the LS1 head was equivalent to an aftermarket aluminum head at the time they came out. That with a relatively mild cam allowed a great rpm range and torque. It crosses over for all engines. They are all just air pumps. If this N54 lets go the junkyard replacement is getting an N53 head and stock cams as 7k is fine for my DD

The LS is a perfect example to prove your point wrong. Cam is a huge gain in power and heads not so much.

porting a head to run stock cams isn’t going to result in much of a gain. Certainly not $4k worth

 

[JBacon335]

You obviously don't get the point. The LS makes the power it does because of the heads they come with. Which is also why a cam makes such a difference.

 

[fmorelli]

Think of the cam as a pump. Take a 1/2" hose and put a coupler in the middle with a pump. Build a second version with same 1/2" hose and triple the size of the pump. Then increase the size of the pump 10x and so on. Pressure will increase at a rate much higher than the flow increasing. Everything is a trade-off. You want pressure in the cylinder, but less so in the intake and exhaust posts (the hoses). Bigger pump in a small hose system doesn't give you much more water. Bigger pump with a bigger hose gives you lots more flow. Head flow, then cam, especially with a very restrictive head. CFM-wise, I believe the N54 has one of the more constrictive head on the market - again, because it was shooting for ultra-responsive higher temp (lower emissions) configuration. We are not trying to do that - our goals are different.

I don't know anything about LS heads except that I know I'd rather have one of those on my N54. But I'm sure the point here is ... much bigger hose out of the gate, which is why putting a bigger pump (cam) makes a difference in what flows through.

And this is why I've not understand why so many more people aren't porting N54s. In the V8 world (and back 60 years) this is a common craft.

Filippo

 

[Hydra Performance]

Cams and headwork are two sides of the same coin, and are of roughly equal importance on the N54, with the effect from both combined > the sum of its components parts. Hi-lift cams won't do much (over low-lift cams) with an N54 head, even when ported, ports are simply too small compared to the valve size.

Some food for thought:
full weight FBO HP800 E92 335i 6AT+ xHP 21psi no meth 98RON 9 deg timing at 7250rpm redline, 6.98s 100-200
full weight FBO HP800 E90 335xi 6AT+ xHP 21psi no meth 100RON 13deg timing at 7500rpm redline, 6.20s 100-200
reduced weight FBO HP800 E92 335i 6AT+ xHP 21psi no meth 98RON 9 deg timing at redline, 6.21s 100-200
The second car above has a ported N54 head and low-lift Schrick cams, and is able to accelerate 12.5% harder, despite being both heavier and lossier due AWD. This is as close a comparison as they come, with similar weather conditions for both, same FMIC, and even the same tuner (yours truly) and so should give us a real-world idea how much we stand to gain from cams + headwork.
Third car is running kirkeys, rear seat delete, and 17"s all round, and was included to illustrate just how big an effect weight has on performance... There's a >220lb difference between the second and third cars. All three cars run exactly the same gear ratios

 

[rev210]

Cams and headwork are two sides of the same coin, and are of roughly equal importance on the N54, with the effect from both combined > the sum of its components parts. Hi-lift cams won't do much (over low-lift cams) with an N54 head, even when ported, ports are simply too small compared to the valve size.

Some food for thought:
full weight FBO HP800 E92 335i 6AT+ xHP 21psi no meth 98RON 9 deg timing at 7250rpm redline, 6.98s 100-200
full weight FBO HP800 E90 335xi 6AT+ xHP 21psi no meth 100RON 13deg timing at 7500rpm redline, 6.20s 100-200
reduced weight FBO HP800 E92 335i 6AT+ xHP 21psi no meth 98RON 9 deg timing at redline, 6.21s 100-200
The second car above has a ported N54 head and low-lift Schrick cams, and is able to accelerate 12.5% harder, despite being both heavier and lossier due AWD. This is as close a comparison as they come, with similar weather conditions for both, same FMIC, and even the same tuner (yours truly) and so should give us a real-world idea how much we stand to gain from cams + headwork.
Third car is running kirkeys, rear seat delete, and 17"s all round, and was included to illustrate just how big an effect weight has on performance... There's a >220lb difference between the second and third cars. All three cars run exactly the same gear ratios

Although not ideal, I would agree there is evidence (just from weight as you say) but, at a reduced magnitude. Better fuel (100RON) and more timing +4deg on the 2nd car is pretty significant assuming the tune is optimised.
We also have to assume all cars have no wheelspin at 100kmh. On my old tyres I would spin at 100kmh occasionally. Mortal 285 tyres and upgraded twins. Though now thats not an issue for me with track orientated kumho V70a medium compound tyres.

 

[fmorelli]

Road trip. Headed out tomorrow for a banzai trip to Wisconsin and back to pick up the head. Hope to get this back on track and finished.

Filippo