Addressing N5x oiling and spun rod bearings (Accusump installed)

Mterkait

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Oct 22, 2017
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Kuwait
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F30 N55 '13
Sorry for late reply, but here are the last few logs. I didn't even open them.. too late to check them anyway have new bottom end from X5 n55b30B. and car is up and running again but back to very stock form, FBO pure stage 2 and bootmod3 OTS.. i call this stock yes ;p

I was running PI fuel, so i was running only 93octane on top mount single 6266 docrace.
the docrace setup is for sale. if someone in middle east wants it.
 

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  • 2019-11-26 18_44_01_Map-6.csv
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  • 2019-11-26 18_44_18_Map-6.csv
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Bnks334

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Dec 1, 2016
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New York
Sorry for late reply, but here are the last few logs. I didn't even open them.. too late to check them anyway have new bottom end from X5 n55b30B. and car is up and running again but back to very stock form, FBO pure stage 2 and bootmod3 OTS.. i call this stock yes ;p

I was running PI fuel, so i was running only 93octane on top mount single 6266 docrace.
the docrace setup is for sale. if someone in middle east wants it.

Looking at the first log: (18-43-13) Avg IGN is showing as 7.9. Doesn't that mean the car was pulling 8* of timing, on average (knocking aggressively)? This was 5th gear and you were at about 2-4* of timing on each cylinder and cyl 6 was at 0* timing. Is the tune targeting that low of an ign timing or was it really pulling 8* of timing? Everythign else other than timing looks ok to me (temps, AFR, boost, throttle, etc).

Looking at the last log: (18-44-18) The car is doing what looks like a 3-4-5th gear pull. Like, out on the straight-away? Things look MUCH worse! 3rd and 4th gear look ok, but then look at what happens when you hit 5th gear... Timestamp 55.75...

The car is at 18:1 and even leaner afr. Pedal shows 100% but throttle is closed down to less than 40%. Not really sure what is going on here. There are only like 3 data points in 5th gear across a 7 second time frame? JB4 sucks. It almost looks like you are in a state of DECEL, but, it shows you are on the pedal still? Is this a glitch or something? Timing is showing 20*? This looks like a recipe for a blown engine, but, I t also looks erroneous so maybe everything was running ok here.

In 3rd/4th gear you were at 0* to 4* timing again, so, definitely knocking at the very least. Not what you want to see for a track tune. I run E85 (E30) on a 93aki tune so I can track with 0 timing corrections or issues.
 
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Asbjorn

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Mar 10, 2018
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Z4 N54 DCT
Looking at the first log: (18-43-13) Avg IGN is showing as 7.9. Doesn't that mean the car was pulling 8* of timing, on average (knocking aggressively)? This was 5th gear and you were at about 2-4* of timing on each cylinder and cyl 6 was at 0* timing. Is the tune targeting that low of an ign timing or was it really pulling 8* of timing? Everythign else other than timing looks ok to me (temps, AFR, boost, throttle, etc).

Here's that log for others to study

Additional information

FirmwareInterfaceEngineTMAP_VAvgIgnDWPMethTriggerModeFFMethSafeModeMethAddMethScaleMethPSIVINE85_SetupVFF_Offsetfuel_30fuel_35fuel_40fuel_45fuel_50fuel_55fuel_60fuel_65fuel_70
19/2//1JB4 Android A281F Series - ALL1.967.962048009924.0¥￿ᅰXEF491515NONE0454550505050505052

BoostSafetyPID GainAutoShiftRedFuel_OLFUA1st_limiter2nd_limiter3rd_limiterFUDN20_TMAP6CylModeLastSafetyduty_15duty_20duty_25duty_30duty_35duty_40duty_45duty_50duty_55duty_60duty_65duty_70
25.8166060021.00.00.0NONE105303030302832353841454546
 
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Asbjorn

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Mar 10, 2018
854
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European, based in China
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Z4 N54 DCT
Looking at the last log: (18-44-18) The car is doing what looks like a 3-4-5th gear pull. Like, out on the straight-away? Things look MUCH worse! 3rd and 4th gear look ok, but then look at what happens when you hit 5th gear... Timestamp 55.75...

The car is at 18:1 and even leaner afr. Pedal shows 100% but throttle is closed down to less than 40%. Not really sure what is going on here.

Maybe this is where the engine gave up? The log:

Additional information

FirmwareInterfaceEngineTMAP_VAvgIgnDWPMethTriggerModeFFMethSafeModeMethAddMethScaleMethPSIVINE85_SetupVFF_Offsetfuel_30fuel_35fuel_40fuel_45fuel_50fuel_55fuel_60fuel_65fuel_70
19/2//1JB4 Android A281F Series - ALL1.977.962048009924.0¥￿ᅰXEF491515NONE0454550505050505052

BoostSafetyPID GainAutoShiftRedFuel_OLFUA1st_limiter2nd_limiter3rd_limiterFUDN20_TMAP6CylModeLastSafetyduty_15duty_20duty_25duty_30duty_35duty_40duty_45duty_50duty_55duty_60duty_65duty_70
25.8166060021.00.00.0NONE105303030302832353841454546
 

Asbjorn

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Mar 10, 2018
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Z4 N54 DCT
Log number 4, the biggest file, just for reference

Additional information

FirmwareInterfaceEngineTMAP_VAvgIgnDWPMethTriggerModeFFMethSafeModeMethAddMethScaleMethPSIVINE85_SetupVFF_Offsetfuel_30fuel_35fuel_40fuel_45fuel_50fuel_55fuel_60fuel_65fuel_70
19/2//1JB4 Android A281F Series - ALL1.978.062048009924.0¥￿ᅰXEF491515NONE0454550505050505052

BoostSafetyPID GainAutoShiftRedFuel_OLFUA1st_limiter2nd_limiter3rd_limiterFUDN20_TMAP6CylModeLastSafetyduty_15duty_20duty_25duty_30duty_35duty_40duty_45duty_50duty_55duty_60duty_65duty_70
25.8166060021.00.00.0NONE105303030302832353841454546
 

Asbjorn

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Mar 10, 2018
854
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European, based in China
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Z4 N54 DCT
Done! Will obtain some new data from the track next weekend.

I promised data, but made the mistake of turning off the pump before entering the track. Will try to get some data next weekend instead.

In the meantime, some pics:

IMG015321.jpg
vlcsnap-2019-12-25-15h06m53s805.png
 

CNM135i

Specialist
Nov 14, 2018
60
18
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M135i PWG
I promised data, but made the mistake of turning off the pump before entering the track. Will try to get some data next weekend instead.

In the meantime, some pics:

The best picture taking the King for a spin is missing. Please correct! :grinning:
 

Asbjorn

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Mar 10, 2018
854
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As mentioned elsewhere, in the last log, oil temp reaches 302F / 150C while coolant is only at 224F / 107C. Power reduction starts at 298F / 148C oil temp, which might explain the timing reduction. I am also surprised how oil is overheating sooner than coolant on this setup. Maybe the turbo wasn't water cooled?

Also there's no yellow cluster warning until 156C for oil. At least not on N54. For coolant it happens at 120C.

The best picture taking the King for a spin is missing. Please correct! :grinning:

Long live the king

IMG922366.jpg
 
Last edited:

houtan

Lieutenant
Nov 2, 2017
650
331
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135i N55 DCT; PS2
Sorry for late reply, but here are the last few logs. I didn't even open them.. too late to check them anyway have new bottom end from X5 n55b30B. and car is up and running again but back to very stock form, FBO pure stage 2 and bootmod3 OTS.. i call this stock yes ;p

I was running PI fuel, so i was running only 93octane on top mount single 6266 docrace.
the docrace setup is for sale. if someone in middle east wants it.
In addition to what the others have already mentioned, why are you running a bootmode OTS map and a JB4? If you have bootmode, why not just go flash only and get an e-tune (unless bootmode has a PS2 OTS map, which i guess would be fine but an e tune would still be better). If you want to use the JB4 for some reason, don't they still provide a flash map to use with their HW?
 

Mterkait

Private
Oct 22, 2017
26
4
0
Kuwait
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F30 N55 '13
Looking at the first log: (18-43-13) Avg IGN is showing as 7.9. Doesn't that mean the car was pulling 8* of timing, on average (knocking aggressively)? This was 5th gear and you were at about 2-4* of timing on each cylinder and cyl 6 was at 0* timing. Is the tune targeting that low of an ign timing or was it really pulling 8* of timing? Everything else other than timing looks ok to me (temps, AFR, boost, throttle, etc).

Looking at the last log: (18-44-18) The car is doing what looks like a 3-4-5th gear pull. Like, out on the straight-away? Things look MUCH worse! 3rd and 4th gear look ok, but then look at what happens when you hit 5th gear... Timestamp 55.75...

The car is at 18:1 and even leaner afr. Pedal shows 100% but throttle is closed down to less than 40%. Not really sure what is going on here. There are only like 3 data points in 5th gear across a 7 second time frame? JB4 sucks. It almost looks like you are in a state of DECEL, but, it shows you are on the pedal still? Is this a glitch or something? Timing is showing 20*? This looks like a recipe for a blown engine, but, I t also looks erroneous so maybe everything was running ok here.

In 3rd/4th gear you were at 0* to 4* timing again, so, definitely knocking at the very least. Not what you want to see for a track tune. I run E85 (E30) on a 93aki tune so I can track with 0 timing corrections or issues.

The car had good power, and I didn't feel a lot of power reduction I mean of course it will pull timing due to high iat, but I don't feel the knocks like the sensor :S, yes the car died at the last log. (obviously :D). yeah, I could've used a better fuel or reduced the boost target.



As mentioned elsewhere, in the last log, oil temp reaches 302F / 150C while coolant is only at 224F / 107C. Power reduction starts at 298F / 148C oil temp, which might explain the timing reduction. I am also surprised how oil is overheating sooner than coolant on this setup. Maybe the turbo wasn't water cooled?

Also there's no yellow cluster warning until 156C for oil. At least not on N54. For coolant it happens at 120C.

I have stock setup for oil coolers so nothing improved in this dept, my car has one oil cooler on pass-side not two like US 335i, also i have csf radiator and intercooler.
The turbo is 6266 precision which is only oil cooled.


In addition to what the others have already mentioned, why are you running a bootmode OTS map and a JB4? If you have bootmode, why not just go flash only and get an e-tune (unless bootmode has a PS2 OTS map, which i guess would be fine but an e tune would still be better). If you want to use the JB4 for some reason, don't they still provide a flash map to use with their HW?
I'm not running JB4 anymore. not sure where did you read that. the flash is very good, except the coldstart is rough although its on OEM Setting. it became rough and bouncy after flashing their transmission tune idk why.
 

houtan

Lieutenant
Nov 2, 2017
650
331
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135i N55 DCT; PS2
I'm not running JB4 anymore. not sure where did you read that. the flash is very good, except the coldstart is rough although its on OEM Setting. it became rough and bouncy after flashing their transmission tune idk why.

All of the logs you posted are from a JB4. Do you have any logs running flash only?
 

Mterkait

Private
Oct 22, 2017
26
4
0
Kuwait
Ride
F30 N55 '13
All of the logs you posted are from a JB4. Do you have any logs running flash only?
I never ran flash only on docrace setup as it requires mac solenoid to control the wastegates, and that was the main reason I had to have a JB4. MOTIV Boostbox isn't out yet for N55.
 

Asbjorn

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Mar 10, 2018
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Z4 N54 DCT
Alright, did some testing with @CNM135i two days ago at Zhuhai International Circuit. Semi-dry oil sump was turned on properly this time... However still saw oil pressure dropping from 95 to 70psi in one left hand corner.

Wasn't even running slicks, so not feeling very happy about this result...

mmexport1577596998519.jpg


IMG_20191214_164926.jpg
 

F87Source

Sergeant
Oct 14, 2019
332
151
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Canada
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2017 Bmw M2
Alright, did some testing with @CNM135i two days ago at Zhuhai International Circuit. Semi-dry oil sump was turned on properly this time... However still saw oil pressure dropping from 95 to 70psi in one left hand corner.

Wasn't even running slicks, so not feeling very happy about this result...

View attachment 34070

View attachment 34071
Do you have any track logs or video capturing the G forces for each turn? Just curious how many G's it took for your sump to start loosing oil pick up.

I kind of want the M4GTS or M4cs sump for my m2 since it adds another half a quart of oil which results in it being rated for 1.4 lateral G instead of the 1.2 found on the regular M2 + S55 sump.
 

Asbjorn

Lieutenant
Mar 10, 2018
854
603
0
European, based in China
Ride
Z4 N54 DCT
Do you have any track logs or video capturing the G forces for each turn? Just curious how many G's it took for your sump to start loosing oil pick up.

I kind of want the M4GTS or M4cs sump for my m2 since it adds another half a quart of oil which results in it being rated for 1.4 lateral G instead of the 1.2 found on the regular M2 + S55 sump.

Here is one corner where it typically happens. What you see in the log is trail braking into and then coming out of the left handed hair pin, the one shown in the picture below. It is not so much the peak G-forces, but rather the sequence of G-forces that starts the party.


vlcsnap-2019-12-30-18h18m21s540.png


So it mainly happens if turning left right after braking. Hence why I was trying to run a pump to return oil to the pick up area from the front of the pan during braking.

Afaik the only difference between GTS and non-GTS S55 oil pans is that the GTS runs a longer oil level sensor, so that it reports normal oil level when in fact there's 0.5L more oil than normal.

On the M2 N55:


oil-supply.jpg


oil-supply2.jpg
 

JohnDaviz

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Jan 6, 2019
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335i E92 DCT
So the M2 has the solution of the "dual oil pump" system with a baffle. One feeding the other. Great solution.

For the N54 actually i figured ppl sharing only the VAC baffle option.

What i cannot find and am planning to do somehow is to check the bolt pattern from the N55 Oil Pan and the N55 Bead Plate.

It may be a bigger DIY project but connecting the second oil pump to the n54 primary pump should be doable. Maybe even the M2 solution fits to the N54 bead plate?

The M2 Oil Pan has everything needed for that and with some hole adjustments it should be possible to fit the Pan to the N54.

Has anyone ever compared these component against each other?
 

Bnks334

Lieutenant
Dec 1, 2016
530
343
0
New York
So the M2 has the solution of the "dual oil pump" system with a baffle. One feeding the other. Great solution.

For the N54 actually i figured ppl sharing only the VAC baffle option.

What i cannot find and am planning to do somehow is to check the bolt pattern from the N55 Oil Pan and the N55 Bead Plate.

It may be a bigger DIY project but connecting the second oil pump to the n54 primary pump should be doable. Maybe even the M2 solution fits to the N54 bead plate?

The M2 Oil Pan has everything needed for that and with some hole adjustments it should be possible to fit the Pan to the N54.

Has anyone ever compared these component against each other?

N54 and n55 share the same oil pan IRC. The one issue though is the m2 uses an electronic power steering pump whereas the n54 and e-n55 use a hydraulic power steering pump which mounts on the oil pan.
 

F87Source

Sergeant
Oct 14, 2019
332
151
0
Canada
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2017 Bmw M2
So the M2 has the solution of the "dual oil pump" system with a baffle. One feeding the other. Great solution.

For the N54 actually i figured ppl sharing only the VAC baffle option.

What i cannot find and am planning to do somehow is to check the bolt pattern from the N55 Oil Pan and the N55 Bead Plate.

It may be a bigger DIY project but connecting the second oil pump to the n54 primary pump should be doable. Maybe even the M2 solution fits to the N54 bead plate?

The M2 Oil Pan has everything needed for that and with some hole adjustments it should be possible to fit the Pan to the N54.

Has anyone ever compared these component against each other?
it's also near $1,000 so not the cheapest solution, this is not including the pump either and all the stuff required to make the pump work.

Overall I am pretty glad I traded in my m235i for my m2, alot less headaches to deal with when building it for the track.
 

F87Source

Sergeant
Oct 14, 2019
332
151
0
Canada
Ride
2017 Bmw M2
Here is one corner where it typically happens. What you see in the log is trail braking into and then coming out of the left handed hair pin, the one shown in the picture below. It is not so much the peak G-forces, but rather the sequence of G-forces that starts the party.


View attachment 34073

So it mainly happens if turning left right after braking. Hence why I was trying to run a pump to return oil to the pick up area from the front of the pan during braking.

Afaik the only difference between GTS and non-GTS S55 oil pans is that the GTS runs a longer oil level sensor, so that it reports normal oil level when in fact there's 0.5L more oil than normal.

On the M2 N55:


View attachment 34075

View attachment 34076
Interesting, realOEM shows a different part number for the GTS and non-GTS oil pan so I am not sure if you're totally correct. The training manual for the GTS also notes the use of a different pan as well.

If it is indeed just a standard S55 pan + 0.5 L of extra oil then that would be very interesting, but I am worried that would fill the pan way too high and cause the crank to slap the top of the oil causing windage which is even worse than just leaving the oil as is.

I'll do more reading on this, but it is very interesting if it is indeed the same pan.
 

F87Source

Sergeant
Oct 14, 2019
332
151
0
Canada
Ride
2017 Bmw M2
Interesting, realOEM shows a different part number for the GTS and non-GTS oil pan so I am not sure if you're totally correct. The training manual for the GTS also notes the use of a different pan as well.

If it is indeed just a standard S55 pan + 0.5 L of extra oil then that would be very interesting, but I am worried that would fill the pan way too high and cause the crank to slap the top of the oil causing windage which is even worse than just leaving the oil as is.

I'll do more reading on this, but it is very interesting if it is indeed the same pan.
Nope you're incorrect, I just checked and the oil level sensor itself is the same P/N as used on all the S55 and N55 motors: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/pa..._GTS&mg=11&sg=10&diagId=11_5919&q=12618638755

It is the oil pan that is different: