Upgraded T04 turbos for less $ than stock! Wtf? Link inside

[langsbr]

It's widely known that VTT switched to the "china-frame" castings when they offered their new castings rather than stock housings. I would be shocked if VTT was buying these turbos as is from China and shipping to customers. I thought that the VTT Stage 2s were a TD04 CHRA but that may only be the GC line. I would expect that they may be sourcing the parts in bulk, and then assembling the CHRA stateside and balancing them with a US vendor and then doing final assembly.

As far as saying you got shafted - that's debatable. How much margin is a company allowed before you feel "shafted"? 1000, 500, or only 100 bucks?

The profit is needed to allow for additional R&D and continued offerings. Instead of thinking you got shafted, think about it in the original context - you were fine with what you paid originally, because you had no idea of the "cost". I have MMP stage 3s -I feel I got a good value for my money - I don't care if MMP got a good enough deal on their parts that it cost them 12 bucks and they made a lot of money off of me, because I felt the price was good.

If you feel you got shafted here, please don't ever wear a brand name clothing item. You'd REALLY feel shafted knowing how much margin there is on clothing, including regular brands like Levis.

 

[JayG335]

It's widely known that VTT switched to the "china-frame" castings when they offered their new castings rather than stock housings. I would be shocked if VTT was buying these turbos as is from China and shipping to customers. I thought that the VTT Stage 2s were a TD04 CHRA but that may only be the GC line. I would expect that they may be sourcing the parts in bulk, and then assembling the CHRA stateside and balancing them with a US vendor and then doing final assembly.

As far as saying you got shafted - that's debatable. How much margin is a company allowed before you feel "shafted"? 1000, 500, or only 100 bucks?

The profit is needed to allow for additional R&D and continued offerings. Instead of thinking you got shafted, think about it in the original context - you were fine with what you paid originally, because you had no idea of the "cost". I have MMP stage 3s -I feel I got a good value for my money - I don't care if MMP got a good enough deal on their parts that it cost them 12 bucks and they made a lot of money off of me, because I felt the price was good.

If you feel you got shafted here, please don't ever wear a brand name clothing item. You'd REALLY feel shafted knowing how much margin there is on clothing, including regular brands like Levis.

No I'm really really hoping what you say is correct. It would be an atrocity to buy these as is from their vendor sell them as is and that's my concern, especially regarding all of the failures. I'm not looking to cut into their margin, I'm not in anyway distraught over the money. I'm distraught over the thought of buying $900 turbos for $2000. I'd love nothing more than to be wrong and have good working turbos for 20-30k miles. Just judging from what's been going on with their turbos and the looks of the other ones I'm super worried.

 

[N54QC]

I thought only the GCs had the 19T and even GC Lites used a 16T.

My worry with these would be what Rob said. The 16T on the TD03 CHRA.

I have stage 2+ with 20T which was an upgrade from the 19T they normally come with.

 

[buster84]

It's widely known that VTT switched to the "china-frame" castings when they offered their new castings rather than stock housings. I would be shocked if VTT was buying these turbos as is from China and shipping to customers. I thought that the VTT Stage 2s were a TD04 CHRA but that may only be the GC line. I would expect that they may be sourcing the parts in bulk, and then assembling the CHRA stateside and balancing them with a US vendor and then doing final assembly.

As far as saying you got shafted - that's debatable. How much margin is a company allowed before you feel "shafted"? 1000, 500, or only 100 bucks?

The profit is needed to allow for additional R&D and continued offerings. Instead of thinking you got shafted, think about it in the original context - you were fine with what you paid originally, because you had no idea of the "cost". I have MMP stage 3s -I feel I got a good value for my money - I don't care if MMP got a good enough deal on their parts that it cost them 12 bucks and they made a lot of money off of me, because I felt the price was good.

If you feel you got shafted here, please don't ever wear a brand name clothing item. You'd REALLY feel shafted knowing how much margin there is on clothing, including regular brands like Levis.

Correct, those are not VTT turbos. From what Vargas told me his turbos are assembled in-house. This means that they have each component made to the specs they want. They do get their cast manifolds from overseas and made to there specifications (Compressor housing, bearing housings, turbine wheels, compressor wheels ect... He also said that all the internal parts of the turbos are sourced from a manufacture in the UK.

The way i look at it is every company out there buys everything from china so its really hard to get away from that, even the computer/cell phone your typing on came from there as well. What matters is the Experience and Knolledge that goes into building the turbo's themselves and the amount of time they take to inspect and double check there work. You will always pay more $$ for work completed by knolledgble people. This is why VTT, RB, Pure all exist... and why they get bussiness. Customers understand that turbos have to be extremly precise, just like surgan has to be when cutting into your body. What VTT does is no different than anyone else who buys stock turbo housings with the intent of rebuilding them with there own parts. What matters is whats inside and how the internals were made and how well put together they are.

I wish anyone good luck that purchases these chinese turbos, but chinese turbos are so mass produced that they will have alot of issues and i highly doubt they are inspected anywhere near the same way RB, VTT, Pure, or any other vender would do.

Anyone know how much more work is involved with an XI install? I know install for RWD is like 1500 and then they have the AWD model listed at $2500 to install... I would do it myself just wondering if its that much harder I know the install price is a bit higher...

XI's are worse than RWD cars when it comes to labor to replace the turbos. I'm not suprised by those quotes at all for the labor. If your paying for the labor to install chinese turbos you might want to rethink your purchase because if they fail, its another $2500 to swap them again and that means your 1k turbos just became 6k + the cost of a new turbo. Thats the same price as a doc race kit which is probably the most expensive turbo setup for the n54.

I'd suggest doing it yourself if your going with chinese turbos.

From what I’ve gathered these are the same size at the GC lites except without the TD04 center and different manifold with the V clamp (which I now think is more of a gimmick). But as far as sizing goes should be about the same. I’m think the regular GC are a 19T

The GC's 2.0s are TD04 with custom 20T compressor wheels and custom exhaust wheels. The 1.0's are 19T. The GC lites i believe are 16T. As for the v clamp seperating the manifold i have to say from my experience this is not a gimmick at all, but a way to save alot of hours on your removal/reinstall if you have turbo problems. I have an XI and I was able to pull the GC 1.0's (getting upgrading to 2.0s) off the car by just removing the oil, coolant, coolant reservoir, lowing the subframe and disconnecting the turbo outlets/inlets from the turbos. Thats it. Normally you have to drop the subframe and all supporting components as well as remove the axel from the oil pan. I also didnt have to remove the exahust manifolds nor will i have to replace the gaskets, or bolts associated with it.

Always good to know I recently got absolutely shafted. I'm fevorously studying these turbos looking for differences as I recently installed VTT stage 2. I can't find a damn thing other than the paint they marked it with. From the wheel to flapper EVEN DOWN TO THE STAMPING ON THE MANIFOLD everything is exactly the same. Can Vargas chime in please?!

Like i said above, almost everything these days are made in china. Turbos all look alike and will always look alike from the outside because that design is how they work. This is no different than designing an airplane. They will all have minor adjustments but every plane will have wings. The wings are what makes it work and the housing are what makes turbos, turbos. What you paid for with VTT's turbos at a higher cost is the different internal parts and experience that comes with it. You got better turbos than these chinese ones. Every turbo made by a vender will be better than these chinese made turbos.

 

[NoQuarter]

No I'm really really hoping what you say is correct. It would be an atrocity to buy these as is from their vendor sell them as is and that's my concern, especially regarding all of the failures. I'm not looking to cut into their margin, I'm not in anyway distraught over the money. I'm distraught over the thought of buying $900 turbos for $2000. I'd love nothing more than to be wrong and have good working turbos for 20-30k miles. Just judging from what's been going on with their turbos and the looks of the other ones I'm super worried.

Heck... back in the 80's we brought product in from the dock, put our sticker on it and sold it for double. Never even took it out of the original package. This Sh$t been going on since forever.

Did you know how to pick out these turbos and buy them in bulk? No... so you bought them from someone who did. If there was some miss-representation about them that is still a different issue then the point I am making.

 

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

I’m about 95% sure these are the new VTT stage 2+ Chinese turbos they are relabeling as their own.

100% those are not our turbos. Good luck with them.

Always good to know I recently got absolutely shafted. I'm fevorously studying these turbos looking for differences as I recently installed VTT stage 2. I can't find a damn thing other than the paint they marked it with. From the wheel to flapper EVEN DOWN TO THE STAMPING ON THE MANIFOLD everything is exactly the same. Can Vargas chime in please?!

Jay,

The fastest way to reach me is always via email. [email protected] and most (not all) of the time you'll get a response very quickly. You have nothing to worry about, but should any issues arise just email me. I'm never that far away. Keep reading for the synopsis.

It's widely known that VTT switched to the "china-frame" castings when they offered their new castings rather than stock housings.

Yessir.

Correct, those are not VTT turbos. Every turbo made by a vender will be better than these chinese made turbos.

Yes -and thank you sir.


To address the claims that those are our turbos; that's a big negative. No. Every single VTT Stage 2 and Stage 2+ is assembled in-house by us, including all balancing processes. This means we have each individual component made for us. The cast manifolds are sourced overseas (this is not a secret), they are machined to our specs and have been for over a year. The compressor housing, again, is our own part number, our own logo cast into them. Bearing housings are machined to our specs, turbine wheels, our own part number, compressor wheels have our own part number (2+ uses a proprietary VTT compressor). Every internal part is sourced from a turbo manufacturer located in the UK.

Anyone is welcome to come down to the shop, check out our balancing/build process. We can walk you through it and show you what's done/how, and show you what we use. Meet the whole VTT team, talk some friendly trash, have some caffeine and gummy bears, see the shop, see how a turbo is built and how it's balanced. Beat that!

We'll be out at Shift Sector this weekend -if you're there (competing or not) please come over and introduce yourself. I'll be the guy that looks like me. Way prettier than Tony.

Finally, I apologize for my slow response to this thread. I look the forums over a time or two per day but honestly try not to spend a ton of time on them. Please -if you have any issues/questions/concerns about VTT products just email me directly.


Best,
Chris

 

[Milan]

Like i said above, everything is made in china. Turbos all look alike and will always look alike from the outside because that design is how they work. This is no different than designing an airplane. They will all have minor adjustments but every plane will have wings. The wings are what makes it work and the housing are what makes turbos, turbos. What you paid for with VTT's turbos at a higher cost is the different internal parts and experience that comes with it. You got better turbos than these chinese ones. Every turbo made by a vender will be better than these chinese made turbos.

Were your stock turbos made in China? Are RB turbos made in China? Are AD-Engineer products made in China? Are Bimmer Life coils made in China? Is Doc Race made in China? What about Precision turbos?

By your analogy the Chinese should have an excellent aerospace program by now. Keep drinking that globalization kool aid my friend.

 

[vegasboy]

To address the claims that those are our turbos; that's a big negative. No. Every single VTT Stage 2 and Stage 2+ is assembled in-house by us, including all balancing processes. This means we have each individual component made for us. The cast manifolds are sourced overseas (this is not a secret), they are machined to our specs and have been for over a year. The compressor housing, again, is our own part number, our own logo cast into them. Bearing housings are machined to our specs, turbine wheels, our own part number, compressor wheels have our own part number (2+ uses a proprietary VTT compressor). Every internal part is sourced from a turbo manufacturer located in the UK.

This seems like your typical broad PR response every time this comes up.

Your stage 2 compressor housings do not have your logo cast into them unless this has changed? I read a post somewhere where you or Tony stated that your part was laser engraved in the stage 2, the cast logo was only for the GC line. We all know how easy laser engraving is these days. Having parts made for you in china, even if it has "your" part number or your specs, doesn't stop them from selling it with a different part number to other vendors. I'm pretty sure you laser engrave your Logo, balance the parts and Maybe do a final assembly at VTT, your source in the UK probably has parts made in china too, do you even use those parts in your stage 2 line? Cause you like to mix your answers on all your products together.

I still feel like these turbos are 95% what you are selling as your product.

That said you guys are here to make a profit and there is nothing wrong with that. You are continually innovating and pushing this platform forward. Including outsourcing to china, but now that has come back to bite you. I know with the GC Zage turbos you have a NA exclusive deal, but that doesn't seem to be the case with this supplier.

I prefer the business model another vendor here uses. which is something like, Hey these products are from china we inspected them they seem pretty decent buy them if you want.

I will say Chris you handle VTT's PR way better than Tony. I could only imagine this thread if he was posting, I'm sure he is pretty upset to find out he got his hand caught in the cookie jar.

 

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

Old stage 2/2+’s didn’t have the logo. The current version does. See attached pics.

As for the turbos being the same -they are not. Manifold is probably the same. Compressor covers aren’t same but might be similar. Internals aren’t the same.

Again, the offer has made to come to the shop and see. Not speculate. See for yourself. It gets no more clear cut than that.

Chris

 

[Mightbaal]

To address the claims that those are our turbos; that's a big negative. No. Every single VTT Stage 2 and Stage 2+ is assembled in-house by us, including all balancing processes. This means we have each individual component made for us. The cast manifolds are sourced overseas (this is not a secret), they are machined to our specs and have been for over a year. The compressor housing, again, is our own part number, our own logo cast into them. Bearing housings are machined to our specs, turbine wheels, our own part number, compressor wheels have our own part number (2+ uses a proprietary VTT compressor). Every internal part is sourced from a turbo manufacturer located in the UK.

This seems like your typical broad PR response every time this comes up.

Your stage 2 compressor housings do not have your logo cast into them unless this has changed? I read a post somewhere where you or Tony stated that your part was laser engraved in the stage 2, the cast logo was only for the GC line. We all know how easy laser engraving is these days. Having parts made for you in china, even if it has "your" part number or your specs, doesn't stop them from selling it with a different part number to other vendors. I'm pretty sure you laser engrave your Logo, balance the parts and Maybe do a final assembly at VTT, your source in the UK probably has parts made in china too, do you even use those parts in your stage 2 line? Cause you like to mix your answers on all your products together.

I still feel like these turbos are 95% what you are selling as your product.

That said you guys are here to make a profit and there is nothing wrong with that. You are continually innovating and pushing this platform forward. Including outsourcing to china, but now that has come back to bite you. I know with the GC Zage turbos you have a NA exclusive deal, but that doesn't seem to be the case with this supplier.

I prefer the business model another vendor here uses. which is something like, Hey these products are from china we inspected them they seem pretty decent buy them if you want.

I will say Chris you handle VTT's PR way better than Tony. I could only imagine this thread if he was posting, I'm sure he is pretty upset to find out he got his hand caught in the cookie jar.

The post above me shows the GC line of turbos they offer not the non-GC line that they offer or used to offer? Either way the GC ones from what I have seen are the ones that are having a bit of reliability issues and problems with warranty coverage....

 

[buster84]

This seems like your typical broad PR response every time this comes up.

Your stage 2 compressor housings do not have your logo cast into them unless this has changed? I read a post somewhere where you or Tony stated that your part was laser engraved in the stage 2, the cast logo was only for the GC line. We all know how easy laser engraving is these days. Having parts made for you in china, even if it has "your" part number or your specs, doesn't stop them from selling it with a different part number to other vendors. I'm pretty sure you laser engrave your Logo, balance the parts and Maybe do a final assembly at VTT, your source in the UK probably has parts made in china too, do you even use those parts in your stage 2 line? Cause you like to mix your answers on all your products together.

I still feel like these turbos are 95% what you are selling as your product.

That said you guys are here to make a profit and there is nothing wrong with that. You are continually innovating and pushing this platform forward. Including outsourcing to china, but now that has come back to bite you. I know with the GC Zage turbos you have a NA exclusive deal, but that doesn't seem to be the case with this supplier.

I prefer the business model another vendor here uses. which is something like, Hey these products are from china we inspected them they seem pretty decent buy them if you want.

I will say Chris you handle VTT's PR way better than Tony. I could only imagine this thread if he was posting, I'm sure he is pretty upset to find out he got his hand caught in the cookie jar.

The post above me shows the GC line of turbos they offer not the non-GC line that they offer or used to offer? Either way the GC ones from what I have seen are the ones that are having a bit of reliability issues and problems with warranty coverage....

This is how everything works. Products get bought and customized then installed and assembled. You are paying for the experience and education. If you want to trust a China computer for your turbos, then more power to you. If you want a human to inspect it, work on it and be highly educated then you buy a turbo from a company you can trust.

This is no different then the NFL or NBA. A coach's salary is based on there experience and education. If you hire cheap labor/uneducated labor you get what you pay for. You have an XI. I highly suggest you avoid these China turbos unless you plan to do the install yourself. If not then once again you are paying someone for their experience to install your turbos without issue. Education and experience do not come cheap.

Do what you want and I wish you luck, but if I ever had to rebuy another turbo setup it would once again be a vendor over the China lottery.

 

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

Those are certainly not GC's. I thought the differences between GC family and Stage 2/2+ was obvious but that may have been an overestimation of your turbo knowledge on my part. I apologize for that. Let me show you the differences in compressor covers.

GC on left, Stage 2 on right.

GC on left, Stage 2 on right.

GC on top, Stage 2 on bottom (forum rotated pic for some reason).

Trying to fit a stock N54 CHRA into a standard Stage 2 housing:

Trying to fit a standard N54 CHRA into a GC housing:

See it doesn't fit very well, lol.

As far as the laser printing... again, differences.

This is the GC:

This is the Stage 2:

A not-very-subtle difference between GC and Stage 2:

Closer (Stage 2):

Closer (GC):

I feel like a bit of a broken record here... but, if you don't like my (broad PR) response, then please bring your prizes with you, compare in person, see which parts are the same and which aren't yourself, we'll show you how we put our turbos together, you can meet the crew, hang out. Hell, we'll even VSR balance your turbos for you while you watch.

Chris

 

[vegasboy]

Those GC's are huge! The new housings look really nice. How big is the inlet on the GC?

 

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

Those GC's are huge! The new housings look really nice. How big is the inlet on the GC?

2"

 

[langsbr]

Chris, do you guys have aluminum outlets that fit the GCs? All the pics I've seen only have the OEM style flange.

 

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

Chris, do you guys have aluminum outlets that fit the GCs? All the pics I've seen only have the OEM style flange.

Yes. Same outlet, different attachment method.

Chris

 

[JuniorB]

I was looking for results on these to see what there capabl of. Why is there such a hard push to try and convince yourself and others that these are based off someone's else's? If there is a different option out there, and proven to withstand all the defects of the hybrid n54 line, then why bother with others? Actually, these are bought with no data, no spoke person, no place of origin, and no real world testing, so, these don't compare to any of the turbos out there being offered, except for what your just measured, and that wasn't even correct as advertised. Is is a real deal to test the unknown, or run these with no balance history, he'll, the compressor can explode for all you know. These are going to be popping up everywhere now that the manifolds are mass produced.

 

[JuniorB]

2"

Bty ,those housings are gorgeous!

 

[buster84]

So it's now Saturday and Vegasboy was installing them on thurday... this is usually how these Chinese threads go. People post, then never come back for results because they usually were defective or blew up. Hopefully Vegasboy doesn't follow that trend.

I'm curious how these turbos are doing so far, if they can pass the 5k mark they might be good as stock replacements but I wouldn't run these at high boost (20+psi) because they would most definitly break something, but at 18-20 psi they might hold up...

 

[vegasboy]

JuniorB
I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything. I’m just trying to share my experience so if anyone is looking at these turbos they will have a little bit more information to go off. I really should have just left my mouth shut instead of getting flamed, but I thought this board was about sharing information!

Turbos are installed, I’ m waiting for motor mounts to show up to reinstall subframe. I’m working this weekend so hopefully can get it all back together on Monday.

Ar down pipes are on but didnt get a pic of them installed.

Still not sure what I have to do as far as tuning goes. I was running JB4 with MHD backend flash.

Thinking of running pump gas first and then adding PI and E85 down the road.