Upgraded T04 turbos for less $ than stock! Wtf? Link inside

[island road]

What are they charging for balancing?
Or if anyone else can chime in what’s the going costs of turbo balancing

I have found shops doing VSR balance for $65 and non VSR for even cheaper. Not sure if this aligns with OP price. For VSR being so cheap it seems worth it to send the CHARs in for a peace of mind, anything that helps these guys out.

On another note that SqureTrade warranty is kinda hilarious, not sure if it would cover the turbos but in the details it does say it would cover re-installed costs.

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

I have found shops doing VSR balance for $65 and non VSR for even cheaper. Not sure if this aligns with OP price. For VSR being so cheap it seems worth it to send the CHARs in for a peace of mind, anything that helps these guys out.

On another note that SqureTrade warranty is kinda hilarious, not sure if it would cover the turbos but in the details it does say it would cover re-installed costs.

You may want to confirm the balancing machinery these shops are using, as many shops have different definitions of what their machinery truly is capable of doing. So many consumers talk to a shop, get quotes; and have no idea they are using what is essentially junk for equipment.

I can tell that if you want a REAL VSR job done, that is specific turbine side adapters for each wheel combo on the proper equipment; the tooling alone would cost wayyyyy more than that. Chances are the shops you are talking to have archaic universal style cradle balancers, which in event I'd take my chances with what you get directly from China.

I've personally balanced several of these China units on our VSR. They give varying results, but are typically under the 1.5g aftermarket industry known acceptability levels to mid-high RPM's. It is very clear the only intent is to try to make them to survive while getting as many as possible out the door, while not at all trying to make them perfect. On a comparative note, however, MHI (and ourselves) balance to 0.1g levels to max RPM's.

Rob

 

[fmorelli]

Or just send them to Rob and he'll spin them.

Filippo

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

Or just send them to Rob and he'll spin them.

Filippo

In order to do it correctly on our VSR- we'd actually have to make tooling specific to the turbine wheel profile. While we CNC our own stuff, it is still substantial time/money to make that tooling. The China units we have done to date were all using the OE turbine, so fortunately it is tooling we have already on tap.

Rob

 

[Torgus]

I can tell that if you want a REAL VSR job done, that is specific turbine side adapters for each wheel combo on the proper equipment; the tooling alone would cost wayyyyy more than that. Chances are the shops you are talking to have archaic universal style cradle balancers, which in event I'd take my chances with what you get directly from China.

Rob do you mean cradle style like this? I know that Frankenturbo use this type.

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

Rob do you mean cradle style like this? I know that Frankenturbo use this type.

View attachment 24799

That is not a cradle balancing process and rather a pre-assembled rotating assembly balance, but you can get a cradle attachment for it and indeed is typically what some would laughably refer to as a "VSR".

That machine is a raging pile of poo, and I can only say it so many times but watch out for what machinery your shops are using.

Rob

 

[BoostedE90]

In order to do it correctly on our VSR- we'd actually have to make tooling specific to the turbine wheel profile. While we CNC our own stuff, it is still substantial time/money to make that tooling. The China units we have done to date were all using the OE turbine, so fortunately it is tooling we have already on tap.

Okay say it was a oem wheel what would YOU charge for vsr balancing?

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

Okay say it was a oem wheel what would YOU charge for a vsr balancing?

If a complete new CHRA itself (meaning there is no housing disassambly required) was shipped to us, and the plan was to not care about anything OTHER than tossing it on the machine and VSR balancing to our specs (AND we had the tooling already), no less than $100 per unit.

And if we found that the components were well out of tolerance such that we could not balance to our specs as the complete CHRA assembly, then it is a whole different animal as then a complete teardown would be in order to re-balance the components as well. Then while on the inside, hopefully we do not see inadequate bearings, as then replacing those would be in order too. It basically only would work if we had the tooling made already, the components are balanced well enough to meet our standards for final assembly VSR balancing, and we turn a blind eye to what maybe installed on the insides.

 

[BoostedE90]

If a complete new CHRA itself (meaning there is no housing disassambly required) was shipped to us, and the plan was to not care about anything OTHER than tossing it on the machine and VSR balancing to our specs (AND we had the tooling already), no less than $100 per unit.

And if we found that the components were well out of tolerance such that we could not balance to our specs, then it is a whole different animal as then a complete teardown would be in order to re-do the components as well. Then while on the inside, hopefully we do not see inadequate bearings, as then replacing those would be in order too. It basically only would work if we had the tooling made already, the components are balanced well enough to meet our standards for final assembly VSR balancing, and we turn a blind eye to what maybe installed on the insides.

Thanks for the info and your thoughts.

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

Thanks for the info and your thoughts.

No problem. FWIW the units we had cleaned up on the VSR in the past- we were able to get to around 0.2g levels. Not too shabby, but without utmost control from the ground up sometimes it is hard to get the best possible results every time so results could vary.

Here is a set we had done a little over a year ago... they cleaned up quite nicely. It is important to note how a mediocre balance translates to "noise". You can literally hear the mechanical instability as they accelerate when you are standing right next to them, whereas a nicely balanced set will have a much smoother and softer mechanical tone.

JB4tech.com - International Turbo Tuning Discussion - View Single Post - N54 Ebay China Turbos LHD 335 BNIB CHEAP!

Everything you want to know about turbocharged engines and the JB4 performance tuner

www.n54tech.com

Rob

 

[BoostedE90]

No problem. FWIW the units we had cleaned up on the VSR in the past- we were able to get to around 0.2g levels. Not too shabby, but without utmost control from the ground up sometimes it is hard to get the best possible results every time so results could vary.

Here is a set we had done a little over a year ago... they cleaned up quite nicely. It is important to note how a mediocre balance translates to "noise". You can literally hear the mechanical instability as they accelerate when you are standing right next to them, whereas a nicely balanced set will have a much smoother and softer mechanical tone.

JB4tech.com - International Turbo Tuning Discussion - View Single Post - N54 Ebay China Turbos LHD 335 BNIB CHEAP!

Everything you want to know about turbocharged engines and the JB4 performance tuner

www.n54tech.com

Rob

All said and done my goal is around 550whp
400 whp 93oct DD tune.

If I decided to go with the 16T china turbos I’d for sure look into having them vsr balanced.

Im coming to terms like some member said it’s just not worth it financially to buy 3-4K turbos when these cars are only worth 5-10k.

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

All said and done my goal is around 550whp
400 whp 93oct DD tune.

If I decided to go with the 16T china turbos I’d for sure look into having them vsr balanced.

Im coming to terms like some member said it’s just not worth it financially to buy 3-4K turbos when these cars are only worth 5-10k.

Don't disagree where the platform is at but not sure where comparable $3-4k priced turbos exist anymore? We typically sell our RB Twos (a Stage 2 setup) for usually around $1,850 or so ($1,999 MSRP)- granted that is not nearly as cheap as some of this china stuff but it is also a far cry from $3-4k as well.

Thanks,
Rob

 

[fmorelli]

Im coming to terms like some member said it’s just not worth it financially to buy 3-4K turbos when these cars are only worth 5-10k.

I guess the other thing - if it was me, I just want to go in there once. I see people with these cars where stuff happens, and they are like, "I'm sick of this" and sell in frustration.

Filippo

 

[Abacus38]

I guess the other thing - if it was me, I just want to go in there once. I see people with these cars where stuff happens, and they are like, "I'm sick of this" and sell in frustration.

Filippo

All said and done my goal is around 550whp
400 whp 93oct DD tune.

If I decided to go with the 16T china turbos I’d for sure look into having them vsr balanced.

Im coming to terms like some member said it’s just not worth it financially to buy 3-4K turbos when these cars are only worth 5-10k.

Plus you mod cars because you want to not for financial gain.

 

[BoostedE90]

Don't disagree where the platform is at but not sure where comparable $3-4k priced turbos exist anymore? We typically sell our RB Twos (a Stage 2 setup) for usually around $1,850 or so ($1,999 MSRP)- granted that is not nearly as cheap as some of this china stuff but it is also a far cry from $3-4k as well.

Thanks,
Rob

Not that it was directed at you, I was rounding numbers, after inlets and outlets and the “recommended” install kit it can get close to 4K with certain companies..

 

[BoostedE90]

Plus you mod cars because you want to not for financial gain.

You buying me some sweet rbs?

I work on cars because I enjoy maintaining and modding them,
In this case, I don’t enjoy overpaying for what can be done for half the cost and virtually the same results..no offense to any companies.

 

[EthanolTurbo]

I feel like RB's $2k turbos and Pure's new $2k-2.5k turbos are the sweet spot for pricing and reliability. Compared to most other vendors, they also seem to be the most knowledgeable. I don't think $3-4k twins are viable anymore thanks to the onslaught of single turbo kits.

 

[EthanolTurbo]

I guess the other thing - if it was me, I just want to go in there once. I see people with these cars where stuff happens, and they are like, "I'm sick of this" and sell in frustration.

Filippo

Yes, but how many times do you also see people doing shit stupid things with their car regarding tuning and maintenance and "sending it" anyways? This platform is extremely accessible but that also opens the gateway for a lot of halfcocked "fast" builds where cutting corners is prioritized over reasonable safety margins.

 

[langsbr]

0.004mm difference nets to 0.000157 inch. I seriously doubt they are measuring sub-thou, much less controlling production there.

Filippo

Sorry, there should have been a / between the 43 and 60 and 43 and 56. I presume inducer and exducer measurements possibly?

I agree it's hard to justify throwing 3K for a set of turbos on a 5k car.

Rob, the RB2s are a td03 chra right? Aren't your td04 offerings about a grand more? Will the price come down with new castings? Any pictures or specs yet?

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

Not that it was directed at you, I was rounding numbers, after inlets and outlets and the “recommended” install kit it can get close to 4K with certain companies..

Well based on the china stuff you are commenting on it seems that you are really in the market for TD03 based offerings... so even though what you are comparing to is an absolute atrocious product it still is in a bit of another league considering they are an TD04 offering.

As for the install kit, yes you will need gaskets to install any turbos. Whether they are recommended or not pends on if you wish to source your own install parts, have your installer source them, or just buy them when it is convenient with the turbo purchase. Regardless of your plan here you will absolutely need gaskets to install any set of turbos on your N54 engine- and this is an additional cost.

As for inlets, indeed you will want a set for any set of upgraded turbos and a further additional cost. Regarding the outlets, unless you are RHD or after 550+whp simply save your $$$ there.

Rob