Technical These n54 blocks are frigging weak.
- Thread starter martymil
- Start date
You are correct, learn something new but they will still crack as the need to be sleeved at the very minimum.
Bmw went the right way with the s58 and even the b58, too bad they are a major headache to fit in the E series
and the conversion will cost more than the car.
Bmw went the right way with the s58 and even the b58, too bad they are a major headache to fit in the E series
and the conversion will cost more than the car.
Last edited:
Only Lci, or to say 6 bolts ones come with grooves. Mine stock block is preLci with no grooves. While doing my bottom end rebuild I scavenged back a Lci block to do the rebuild. The groove is much of a headache to get around with TBH.
(Left is Lci block from a scavenger yard. We have only LCI blocks domestic here)
PreLci with big power suffer less stress concentration there, but just does not crack in between bores, the grey cast iron + open-deck still extremely brittle in its nature and crack alongside the coolant passage eventually.
(About to drop-in the ductile iron sleeve for my block and do a semi-close deck style of insert)
Except my N54, the shop is working on some S55/S58/S63s as well. All damaged under big power(deep scratches on cylinder wall). The design of these B/S engines are no superior in the sense of big power(more than 100hp per cylinder) capability as I observed.
The S/B5X blocks are same AluSil as n54 but not sleeved and instead cylinders are coated with LDS sprayed IROX, which in nature is a very thin layer of ductile iron, or steel. The strength of LDS IROX on its surface is much higher than G25 grey cast iron, both tensile and compressive. However, due to the thin layer nature of sprayed coating, it may suffer more from high power detonation event. So all the S55/58/63 engines damaged I observed similar deep scratches on the cylinder walls, while N54s usually come with cracks like posted above. Lci ones crack in between bores(only sleeves crack) and Pre-Lci ones crack along the coolant ports(both aluminum cylinder wall and sleeves crack).
(An EA855 played @ 800WHP and damaged its cylinder. Most Irox engines are about the same)
Can't say which one is superior in general application, grey cast iron sleeve or NicaSil coating used by Porsche(patented by Mahle) or LDS Irox, but I believe ductile iron is a solution with advantage of both worlds. Drawback is ductile iron is damn hard to machine, extremely time consuming to plant.
Last edited:
N54 sleeves are cast iron and are free of alu or nika seal.
They are just bored and honed to spec.
I have a 8 bolt block sleeved with Iron ductile sleeves made by westwood cylinder liners.
They are just bored and honed to spec.
I have a 8 bolt block sleeved with Iron ductile sleeves made by westwood cylinder liners.
AluSil is about what the blocks are made of.
NicaSil is Mahle patented coating tech usually used by Porsche, it's a method to coat the AluSil block's bore, to form a strong cylinder wall to avoid AluSil wear because Alu is generally soft. Same function for LDS sprayed IROX.
N54 sleeves are grey cast iron as I mentioned.
I may not be clear enough about what I mentioned in my verboseness.
Weird. I been running 24psi for two years mixed driving (178 mph so far...too scared to go faster). Zero issues, no leaks anywhere.
I track and race mine or beat on it consistently e20 on street and e30 to e40 on track.
Logs are super clean on 21 psi as its in my e87 hatch I can't put the power down as the chassis is to short and light.
Might turn it down to 18 psi after I rebuild the motor.
I got a new gearbox for it and new clutch, should have another 50k of hassle free racing.
Man you digged up an old picture.. This is a block from Ghassan wjhich was running 1200hp (claimed). It broke not during normal operation but due to failure of the fueling system.
It was only just posted on facebook today, still weak shit blocks.
You ever seen a block fail in normal operation ?
They all fail at full power but it shows they fail, failure is a failure and it will always find the next weakest link after you fix the previous one.
You ever seen a block fail in normal operation ?
They all fail at full power but it shows they fail, failure is a failure and it will always find the next weakest link after you fix the previous one.
That particular block was hydro locked, no wonder it resulted in this mess.
ANY other engine would look similar if it would happen the same to it.
ANY other engine would look similar if it would happen the same to it.
Thats not true, I personally had a k20 hydro locked honda engine which went through standing water and swallowed a gulp and it never hurt it.
All we had to do is remove the spark plugs, crank it over to remove the water, reinstalled everything and she started right up.
Still running till today.
Cast iron engines are just so much stronger than this alloy shit.
So you are saying that a K20 engine is capable to compress a liquid without any damage?
Sounds more like you were very lucky while the combustion space was just partially filled with water with still some air in it.
Sounds more like you were very lucky while the combustion space was just partially filled with water with still some air in it.
It hydro locked the motor and locked up the drive line at about 40mph.
Motor survived, had a number of cast iron aussie v8's hydro lock as their head gaskets like to leak when left sitting for months on end.
Alloy motors might be light but cast iron or billet is king, look at the early Rb engines big hp motors either run billet or cast blocks from a diesel
motor converted to suit, cant exactly remember which block it is.
R35 big hp cars run billet as alloy stock blocks don't last, I was looking into a billet n54 block but the price is just ludicrous.
The picture you posted is from Ghassan, he hydrolocked the engine on methanol after ignition cutout and yes, it's old. https://www.facebook.com/groups/2520117854799588/posts/2606520726159300/
An open deck block that makes the kind of power the N54 does is pretty decent in the world of motors, not withstanding there are better ones.
All blocks have a life span anyway related to relative loads. Something you see in race cars as extreme examples but also in ships and other applications. Even billet ones. Top fuel cars get maybe 12 passes. Weak block? Nah just the world's strongest block can't be sent to engine hell more than 12 times apparently.
The N54 stock ring gap is also a thing, when looking at stock engines failing or for that matter built ones. Forged kit also doesn't mean you get to use factory gaps for backyard builders. For someone inclined to push stock motors ,you would definately see higher power ability simply by yanking the stock pistons and opening the gap up. Be much happier at 600+rwhp for little effort.
Back on topic, n54 billet block would be great, do a billet head while we are at it too ?
All blocks have a life span anyway related to relative loads. Something you see in race cars as extreme examples but also in ships and other applications. Even billet ones. Top fuel cars get maybe 12 passes. Weak block? Nah just the world's strongest block can't be sent to engine hell more than 12 times apparently.
The N54 stock ring gap is also a thing, when looking at stock engines failing or for that matter built ones. Forged kit also doesn't mean you get to use factory gaps for backyard builders. For someone inclined to push stock motors ,you would definately see higher power ability simply by yanking the stock pistons and opening the gap up. Be much happier at 600+rwhp for little effort.
Back on topic, n54 billet block would be great, do a billet head while we are at it too ?
Similar threads
