Ad: Spool Helix HPFP overdrive Kit
- Thread starter SpoolPerformance
- Start date
Came down from 140 ok .... no issues - but only once in the week I drove it (with the cracked housing) - and that wasn't a hard stop, just slowing down from some spirited driving with a vette on the toll road .... but no issues braking.
That's awesome. I'm not terribly familiar if they have a "standard" stage 2 or not, but if so I believe their 2+ is probably flows a good bit better than most other vendors stage 2 turbos. Either way, very impressive and just goes to show how much those Helix' help out too! I'm excited to hop on the dyno and see what my car does since I'm also on e50, but currently on 1Ks @ 30psi and have a custom big twin kit going on soon(ish)
That's true. Most stage 2 turbos are just slightly ported housings with a slightly bigger wheel which is what I had in mind. IMO MMP is more in line with what different stage turbos should be - I'm not a fan of these "Stage 3" and "stage 4" turbos that use the stock tiny TD03 housings.Only on a vendor's shop car
It really depends on your definition of stage 2. Do MMP with huge wheels and welded housings count with the stock turbofolds? China Cast?
Just goes to show what me and a handful of others have been saying all along - lots of fearmongering going on about the Helix. Mostly by PI users or Vendors judging from what I've seen on FB, which then trickles onto here.
For now, just some On3 55mm GT30 turbos - I know some people arent big fans of On3 because of China parts but I also know plenty of other platforms have used them for some time with success, plus the fact that they're compact and have all V band connections is very helpful. Manifolds are already made and include external wastegate provisions, though they're based on the stock twin manifolds. For starters I am going to run it like that as a "proof of concept" for large twins and see how they perform at the drag strip, but I'm hoping that down the line either MMP, @Hydra Performance or RB (not likely considering his distaste for me unfortunately) might be willing to send me some of their larger manifolds for modification. The shop I use for bigger or annoying jobs does have a very very capable fabricator who could probably make something better, but I dont know that I want to have my engine pulled for weeks at a time to mock stuff up etc. etc. I also hope to go to some ball bearing 55/58 Garrett turbos eventually if they'll fit, but even with the On3 55/55 compact housings it's still a very tight fit.
Pics will come when the time is right
with all the internet experts I dont feel like dealing with all the BS that would likely come along from people who don't know what they're talking about while the process is on going.
Don't know about FB since thankfully I minimize my time paying attention the cacophony. I'm not sure what has trickled down here from FB, but I don't think I'd call cracked vacuum systems on the cars a fear mongering. It's a valid concern, a safety concern, and some of us would rather wait it out until the next few rounds of beta solutions vet out. What's the chances of it happening? Well don't know but the vendor has been addressing the issue, now with two solutions, so I doubt the issue is irrelevant or minor, for additional components to be developed to address it. My hope is that by summer we have a good sense of how those solutions have addressed the issue. That's not fear mongering - that's being prudent. I'm looking forward to being a customer.
BUT ... as I've said before, I thank all those doing early release testing out in the real world ... only way to really sort a product out at scale.
Filippo
@fmorelli dont get me wrong, obviously a cracked vacuum cover is not a good situation. If I thought it was negligible, I wouldnt have asked for the billet cover or the bracket myself. When I was referring to the fearmongering, I was more referencing the fact that several people on FB (who are not users, mind you) have been inplying or straight out saying that the Helix inherently causes the vacuum cover or housing to crack, which leads to catastrophic brake failure automatically. I can understand your concern and was not trying to slight anyone who is being patient but reasonable.
The reality is, that of the many many units sold only a handful have cracked the vacuum cover (3-4 afaik, @SpoolPerformance probably has the most accurate number obviously) - and only one actual vacuum pump housing itself has cracked, to which the person refused to send it in for inspection or comment on any potential install issues or previous issue with the vac pump, and I believe he was the *only* person to have brake failure.
Like I said, I can appreciate you wanting to wait it out and make sure theres no potential issues possible whether it's due to the product itself or not - usually I'm not an early adopter either, but I didn't want to to PI, can't use the Shotgun due to removing my AC compressor, and it just so happened a phenomenal product was in beta testing and priced significantly less than the other two options that I didn't/couldnt run so I took the plunge. So far it's paid off in spades, I love the product and I've been able to help beta test and bring the product to others. To me one more N54 oil leak to fix isnt the end of the world if it happens, but I will still be taking the steps to bullet proof the setup like I have with plenty of other things. You're gonna love it though, Fillipo- for sure!
The reality is, that of the many many units sold only a handful have cracked the vacuum cover (3-4 afaik, @SpoolPerformance probably has the most accurate number obviously) - and only one actual vacuum pump housing itself has cracked, to which the person refused to send it in for inspection or comment on any potential install issues or previous issue with the vac pump, and I believe he was the *only* person to have brake failure.
Like I said, I can appreciate you wanting to wait it out and make sure theres no potential issues possible whether it's due to the product itself or not - usually I'm not an early adopter either, but I didn't want to to PI, can't use the Shotgun due to removing my AC compressor, and it just so happened a phenomenal product was in beta testing and priced significantly less than the other two options that I didn't/couldnt run so I took the plunge. So far it's paid off in spades, I love the product and I've been able to help beta test and bring the product to others. To me one more N54 oil leak to fix isnt the end of the world if it happens, but I will still be taking the steps to bullet proof the setup like I have with plenty of other things. You're gonna love it though, Fillipo- for sure!
My apologies if I was unclear. To be far far more specific, I was not addressing Facebook. I was addressing your inference, to which I disagreed, that it was going on here. As you mentioned in your follow-up, in fact, you were really talking about on various Facebook groups. Thanks for clarifying. I'm looking forward to the fully sorted out product!
Filippo
p.s. Glad to hear yours is rocking. I'm envious!
Some of you think that loss of vacuum is no big problem and you should be able to easily pull up, not disagreeing with that but in an emergency situation the possibility of
someone loosing their life if you cant stop at high speeds is mere ft or ms between life and death.
From a liability standpoint your f'ed as your using a race product on the street and if that is determined to cause the failure causing death your going to prison.
That goes for all race branded products including other solutions but then its up to you to determine if the risk is worth it and that you are prepared for the worst if you
find yourself in this situation.
I'm actually looking forward this product working and wouldn't mind testing it on my 335 test mule but I'll wait for the final solution.
someone loosing their life if you cant stop at high speeds is mere ft or ms between life and death.
From a liability standpoint your f'ed as your using a race product on the street and if that is determined to cause the failure causing death your going to prison.
That goes for all race branded products including other solutions but then its up to you to determine if the risk is worth it and that you are prepared for the worst if you
find yourself in this situation.
I'm actually looking forward this product working and wouldn't mind testing it on my 335 test mule but I'll wait for the final solution.
I feel like that post was targeted at me even though I wasnt tagged, but... I dont think anyone is arguing that a loss of your brakes due to having no vacuum isn't a big deal. The only "arguements" that might be misinterpreted as such are from the two users saying they *didn't* have a loss of braking power from the cracked vacuum cover, and my post saying that a lot of stories have been blown out of proportion - like I said, only one person has reported a loss of brakes and that was due to a damaged vacuum pump assembly, which more than likely was not due to a Helix anyway and was likely coincidental.
Arguing about not being able to stop on a public road from high speeds is a slippery slope - for one, you shouldn't be driving so fast that braking may be an issue anyway. I know "Mexico" runs on the interstate are more and more common these days with the glorification due to social media and YouTube, but its inarguable that racing in traffic instead of at the track is dumb. Bringing "race only" parts into it is even more slippery - most bolt ons and even downpipes are marketed as race/off road only, but surely we wouldnt argue that they make the cars any more unsafe at the speed limit and following the rules of the road.
@martymil in general I greatly enjoy and appreciate your input, but you having skin in the game as a VTT vendor is kind of one of the things I was talking about. We have several actual users who have claimed no real issue (other than oil loss - and realistically how many 9+yo N54s on the road are leaking from somewhere already?) even with the uncommon issue happening, but a competitor chiming in to add fuel to the fire of how dangerous of a product the Helix is.
Arguing about not being able to stop on a public road from high speeds is a slippery slope - for one, you shouldn't be driving so fast that braking may be an issue anyway. I know "Mexico" runs on the interstate are more and more common these days with the glorification due to social media and YouTube, but its inarguable that racing in traffic instead of at the track is dumb. Bringing "race only" parts into it is even more slippery - most bolt ons and even downpipes are marketed as race/off road only, but surely we wouldnt argue that they make the cars any more unsafe at the speed limit and following the rules of the road.
@martymil in general I greatly enjoy and appreciate your input, but you having skin in the game as a VTT vendor is kind of one of the things I was talking about. We have several actual users who have claimed no real issue (other than oil loss - and realistically how many 9+yo N54s on the road are leaking from somewhere already?) even with the uncommon issue happening, but a competitor chiming in to add fuel to the fire of how dangerous of a product the Helix is.
I guess we'll wait for the first person to die from loss of brakes on a vacuum failure, so then we can report on factual consequence?
Yeah sorry I don't agree with any of that. Risk is relative, as you point out. But that line of reasoning doesn't pass the sensibility test.
People drive these cars fast. To make the argument that people wouldn't be driving these cars at speed ... I mean ... like why the hell do you buy something to give you so much fuel ... this is like a discussion of cognitive dissonance.
Marty and I disagreed over the solution approach to this, and some of what I suggested was the rout Spool has taken. But make no mistake, Marty was the first person I saw that pointed out the relationship of failure to concern. I don't care if he likes VTT, has done business with them, etc. I think it's ridiculous to paste his reputation - instead point out anything he has said that is not a reasonable observation. I haven't seen one. The funny part is - we'll all be customers when this settles down. But the concern is well-reasoned. I don't need to see dead bodies to cause me concern.
Filippo
Yeah sorry I don't agree with any of that. Risk is relative, as you point out. But that line of reasoning doesn't pass the sensibility test.
People drive these cars fast. To make the argument that people wouldn't be driving these cars at speed ... I mean ... like why the hell do you buy something to give you so much fuel ... this is like a discussion of cognitive dissonance.
Marty and I disagreed over the solution approach to this, and some of what I suggested was the rout Spool has taken. But make no mistake, Marty was the first person I saw that pointed out the relationship of failure to concern. I don't care if he likes VTT, has done business with them, etc. I think it's ridiculous to paste his reputation - instead point out anything he has said that is not a reasonable observation. I haven't seen one. The funny part is - we'll all be customers when this settles down. But the concern is well-reasoned. I don't need to see dead bodies to cause me concern.
Filippo
I don't understand why people think I'm anti-helix because I'm not and I didn't target anyone with my statement, I'm actually looking forward to a proper final solution
for my customers that can't use a shotgun or don't want to use VTT as they are not my only supplier but I stand 100% behind every product I sell or wont sell it.
I went into business to make money and if someone wants me to install a helix and pay me for it why would I refuse except on the grounds of safety and liability.
Money is money at the end of the day but I don't want to be spending hard earned money defending my self in court, been there done that in the past on another
matter and won but cost my insurance close to 200k to prove our innocence and guess what, the way the legal system works in OZ each pay their own costs luckily I had
insurance for this.
If you knowingly know that there is a possible chance of the product failing and causing bodily harm or death you are personally liable doesn't matter if you sign
any type of waiver here in OZ your screwed.
I'm defending my decision to wait for the final solution to be released that has no possibility of causing these type of failures as I can guarantee these will sell in
the hundreds when done properly and don't want to miss out on the work and subsequent work as most have other parts that want to be installed along side of this.
Hope this explains what I'm trying to get across.
for my customers that can't use a shotgun or don't want to use VTT as they are not my only supplier but I stand 100% behind every product I sell or wont sell it.
I went into business to make money and if someone wants me to install a helix and pay me for it why would I refuse except on the grounds of safety and liability.
Money is money at the end of the day but I don't want to be spending hard earned money defending my self in court, been there done that in the past on another
matter and won but cost my insurance close to 200k to prove our innocence and guess what, the way the legal system works in OZ each pay their own costs luckily I had
insurance for this.
If you knowingly know that there is a possible chance of the product failing and causing bodily harm or death you are personally liable doesn't matter if you sign
any type of waiver here in OZ your screwed.
I'm defending my decision to wait for the final solution to be released that has no possibility of causing these type of failures as I can guarantee these will sell in
the hundreds when done properly and don't want to miss out on the work and subsequent work as most have other parts that want to be installed along side of this.
Hope this explains what I'm trying to get across.
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End of the day, this should have been a simple solution. It has been anything but straight forward.
I for one wanted a hpfp solution but I won't be buying a helix overdrive with the way things are right now.
The double barrel option is too expensive for me also.
I for one wanted a hpfp solution but I won't be buying a helix overdrive with the way things are right now.
The double barrel option is too expensive for me also.
I thought everything is all sorted out now, since spool already released the bracket which is supposed to prevent the chance of the vaccum pump from cracking? Or are you waiting for people to put miles on it?
This doesn't make a ton of sense. The double-barrel would flow twice as much as the helix (3X overdrive). If you were in the market for a helix that means you are in the market for a single barrel(3X overdrive), which is $799 or cheaper than the helix. It has never made any sense to us when we see people comparing the double barrel to the helix...
Yeah I want to see if the hpfps that look weak can last being driven constantly at far faster speeds than they were designed for. They aren't cheap to replace.
Also not fully sure resonance issues are totally solved. I will wait.
Your double barrel is $1100 and requires another hpfp. Far too expensive.
The 4x might be an option but that's driving the hpfp even faster again.
The second pump on the double barrel runs at stock speed the first pump is overdriven around x2 times if i'm not mistaken and mine has been running over 3 years without any issues
as its all in the installation.
I'm looking forward to the helix as we are going to drop an n54 in an early girl and there is no room for the double barrel, I really hope the problem is sorted but time will tell.
as its all in the installation.
I'm looking forward to the helix as we are going to drop an n54 in an early girl and there is no room for the double barrel, I really hope the problem is sorted but time will tell.
I am losing hope to be honest. Just like most of you, my ideal scenario is a DME controlled solution. Would have been nice if we got a solution that was a new pump designed to push more fuel, but I know that is difficult. I do hope this pans out for those that are still fans of the helix OD.
Personally, the part I do not like about the helix OD is taking pieces of stock hw (I am thinking things like the HPFP or injectors) and running it harder when I can get PI and reduce the strain on the stock HW. I know I know, the batch fire solution is archaic and not DME controlled. But is has been around for many years and worked fine in OE implementations many years ago per my google research. In the near term, which is the next couple of years, I feel like that is the best route for me. After a year or two, once there is a larger sample size, I would consider this solution, if the results are positive.
Personally, the part I do not like about the helix OD is taking pieces of stock hw (I am thinking things like the HPFP or injectors) and running it harder when I can get PI and reduce the strain on the stock HW. I know I know, the batch fire solution is archaic and not DME controlled. But is has been around for many years and worked fine in OE implementations many years ago per my google research. In the near term, which is the next couple of years, I feel like that is the best route for me. After a year or two, once there is a larger sample size, I would consider this solution, if the results are positive.
Again your post makes no sense. If you are in the market for a helix, you are in the market for a single barrel. NOT a double barrel. A single barrel will easily match the flow of a helix, and do so without any of the drawbacks. A double barrel will far outflow any single pump offering by a wide margin. So yes it's more expensive. More flow, more cost. Unless you want 800+ on DI only a DB really isn't needed these days
