Come on Hydra, everybody knows Marty is never wrong.
Technical Shrick Stage 1 Low-Lift cam results
- Thread starter martymil
- Start date
Nope, I'm not wrong on this.
On straight 93 those results are not attainable on a n54 without some chemical assistance, will it be meth, e85 or octane booster and that's a stretch at best unless they have some magical 93 fuel the rest of the world has no access to.
I can run up any stock car on a stock tune running stock boost and it will be pulling timing anything over 5 to 6 deg and that's tuned by worlds best German engineers.
Thats funny.
On straight 93 those results are not attainable on a n54 without some chemical assistance, will it be meth, e85 or octane booster and that's a stretch at best unless they have some magical 93 fuel the rest of the world has no access to.
I can run up any stock car on a stock tune running stock boost and it will be pulling timing anything over 5 to 6 deg and that's tuned by worlds best German engineers.
Thats funny.
Yes, Australian fuel is poor quality. Hi sulfur content too.
Many Euro cars are slightly de-tuned for our market.
Our 98 is only equivalent to USA 93 and we don't have 10% ethanol in all our fuels to help (I believe the US has 10% in all pump fuel?).
My single turbo needs at least 20% E85 added to our 98 to be happy and really needs 50%+ when playing in the 400-500rwkw mark .
I know 19 degrees of timing would never be possible on my car in Oz with twins or single turbo.
I have had every possible combo with supporting mods on my car over the last 12 years, tuned to the limit.
No N53 head yet
Last edited:
Yes, but the reason we have 10% ethanol is to GET to 93 octane. It's the ethanol that gives it more octane. 93 without ethanol is arguably better, if not harder to make or get.
i dont want to get into a p8ssing contest over ignition timing but these octane numbers arent representative of real world performance of the fuels. the ratings are established with a CFR engine at low rpm, hardly representative of the n54. the fuel is not delivered directly into the bore as per direct injection. 93 with no alcohol versus 93 (achieved by using alcohol) is two different things despite having the same result in the CFR test engine. the one with alcohol content is going to outperform under high boost injected direct into the cylinder because of the additional cylinder cooling.
in my experience the only way i could ever get Australian 98 RON to be equivalent to US 93 AKI (based on timing and boost being similar as to what was being posted on forums) would be to run 10% ethanol in our 98 RON. I could be wrong but I thought the legislation in the US was that they could mix up to 10% ethanol without it being disclosed at the pump? so i always figured it was the small alcohol concentrations that were helping them out, its the only thing that made sense to me.
I've tuned several cars so far, with both N53 and N54 heads running both Schrick low-lift and high-lift cams, and logs were exemplary as far as corrections go. So drawing from my personal experience I think its safe to say that the Schrick cams DO NOT cause false knock. This is coming from someone who ran 19deg @ redline on a bone stock bottom end on straight 93oct without issue
What were your thoughts on the low vs high lift cams?
Well and not to complicate things, but fuel is not fuel. The only fuel I have been able to find running clean with my tunes has been Shell gas. Same rating as anyone else's fuel, but performs better. So the number is far from a representation of the fuel's ability to perform in our engines.
Filippo
I get the most consistent results with BP here in Sydney although there are times when even it is questionable. So, yeah Rac & fmorelli are spot on, fuels aint fuels. Haven't managed any more than 9 degrees of timing. Will see what's possible in the new donk.
I have Schrick high lifts in my built motor along with stage 3 head. Tuner says low lift are good for an extra 1-2 psi in the chamber while the high lifts are good for 3-4. VTT have long said that cams are a great upgrade, even on a stock head build like Terry at BMS. I have never been willing to drop cams into my stock engine before breaking it. Cams were only ever going to go in a full Monty engine as these n54s are too easy to blow with reliable big power. Anyhoo, no secrets or surprises, but at least Marty has been adventurous and willing to test anything and everything, as usual.
Martys car is one of the most sorted and well tuned N54's around here and thus a great test bed for any change or new parts release. There is always something new and in development on his car. Despite being blunt and controversial, at times, there is plenty to take note of for those willing to hear him out. I get to ride in his 1M regularly and always enjoy the next improvement or experiment.
Not necessarily there is 91 Oct with 10% Ethanol as well. Having 10 percent ethanol is standard in all fuels in MN at least. Besides 91 and 93 non oxy which are harder to find.
RON/AKI is just a rating and only represents how well a given fuel resists detonation on Ricardo's E5 test engine under specific test conditions, which may or may not (likely not) correspond to the needs of a modern DI turbocharged engine. This has historically been an area of development in professional motorsports like F1, where they needed to maximize performance/detonation-resistance while meeting a nominal 102RON test rating
I've had wildly different results on the same fuel grades from differing stations in the same area, different areas, and even different weather. In every engine/mod configuration I've had on this car.
I try not to get into pissing matches. I don't think it's the cams.
I'll just leave it at that.
I try not to get into pissing matches. I don't think it's the cams.
I'll just leave it at that.
Yep.
I'm pretty certain @martymil has a decent handle on which local fuels he's using - that comes with this territory as fundamental, as you pointed out in your experience above.
Filippo
I never said its the actual cams that are causing the issue but something is not playing nicely with the bigger cam shafts or at least that's what I meant.
We will be trying the new knock sensors when they arrive and if that does not fix it, we will try new springs and retainers.
I bet others have run into this but don't share their info because they are afraid to share their experience, just take one look at this thread
and the amount of trolls and negative feedback in it.
No wonder most vendors keep this type of info to them selves, you reap what you sow.
I'm blunt, arrogant and a down right bastard sometimes and I can admit it and I don't give a flying fuck.
But my results are unbiased and brutally honest and if I don't like something I'll say it the way it is.
If you don't like it, ring lifeline and tell someone who gives a shit.
We will be trying the new knock sensors when they arrive and if that does not fix it, we will try new springs and retainers.
I bet others have run into this but don't share their info because they are afraid to share their experience, just take one look at this thread
and the amount of trolls and negative feedback in it.
No wonder most vendors keep this type of info to them selves, you reap what you sow.
I'm blunt, arrogant and a down right bastard sometimes and I can admit it and I don't give a flying fuck.
But my results are unbiased and brutally honest and if I don't like something I'll say it the way it is.
If you don't like it, ring lifeline and tell someone who gives a shit.
Funny thing I've just started getting a similar situation. New tune revision but, it was tunning very nice before the recent E85 fill. Previous tune revision was ok.Straight E85 is giving me a wierd timing pull on most cyl.looks like your logs in many ways Martymil. Not sure if yours is the same deal on bp98? My suspicions are dodgy e85 from United, I have had this before . E content looks normal but, its not happy, suspect crap in the fuel. I use fuel doctor to keep my fuel free of sediments and build up(important for flex or switching/mixing E fuels I feel) E85 produces some build up over time, even though its not eating lines etc , and recently have forgotten to add it ,so that might also be it. Will drain this lot and see what happens.
I suspect bp 98 is the culprit and united since covid, they lost money left right and centre and are trying to recoup their losses skimping onthe quality of fuel.
On my ram 1500 I was getting 10 to 12lph now I can't even manage 16 to 18 with a very light foot
On my ram 1500 I was getting 10 to 12lph now I can't even manage 16 to 18 with a very light foot
Last edited:
Looks like I found the issue more testing needed.
Went back to basics, old school.
Its making so much power now the di rail fell flat on its face and need more pressure to confirm my findings.
Little to no timing corrections now.
Its making so much power now the di rail fell flat on its face and need more pressure to confirm my findings.
Little to no timing corrections now.
Last edited:
