Technical Shrick Stage 1 Low-Lift cam results

[martymil]

With the stock cams my timing was perfect and clean on a built motor.

With the cams the knock sensors are picking up what looks like false knock and causing the motor to go open loop.

Still to early to tell what us causing timing pull but it looks like I might have to invest is Tony's knocks sensors to eliminate it.

Otherwise the log is dead set clean in every way.

 

[langsbr]

What makes you think that is not real knock? Changing the duration would change ve and DCR and you could be experiencing real knock, could you not? Does added octane not remove the corrections?

 

[martymil]

straight e85 and 4 deg of timing cant be knock

 

[rac]

valve noise can affect knock signals, really depends on the knock noise filter and how the ecu is inferring knock. its definately plausible that a more aggresive cam profile could contribute to false knock. so too could worn guides and changing the valve type, seat angle etc. end of the day valve train noise can be high frequency so it can unfortunately fall into the range the ecu is looking for knock. bmw only needed to filter for the stock engine mechanical noises with some allowances for wear of stock components. i think one of syvecs best features is its knock control method, it looks for a frequency but also sharp relative changes in the amount of noise rather than strictly the absolute value, so "normal" mechanical noise is disregarded.

 

[Slowagon54]

Makes sense. I have seen some inline 6 BMW's with cams and they all had a rattle noise coming from the vanos units. Mostly on M52tu and M54's... but no experience with cammed N54's. Please keep us posted on this

 

[E92 420]

With the stock cams my timing was perfect and clean on a built motor.

With the cams the knock sensors are picking up what looks like false knock and causing the motor to go open loop.

Still to early to tell what us causing timing pull but it looks like I might have to invest is Tony's knocks sensors to eliminate it.

Otherwise the log is dead set clean in every way.

hope you get it all sorted soon Man. Your results have been great so far and I am interested to see your results once your crank it up a little more.

schrick emailed me back today they have avoided explaining what they mean by high lifts being better for our motors! Iv asked again as it needs explaining.

aside from that they have assured me high lifts are designed to be run on a stock engine and valve train and will be fine!

 

[martymil]

I've got a few things in the works so hopefully we can sort it out as I was hoping to do a club run this weekend.

Worst case scenario I run a syvecs which will open up a plethora of aftermarket options to me but the whole
point was to do it of the factory ecu and be able to offer options to customers, not only for the ones with deep
pockets but I've bitten of more than I can chew with this one I think.

My built motor was perfect running stock cams with no noise at all, it will be worth the trouble but its going to take time to sort it out.

 

[martymil]

BTW my head has been fully rebuilt when the cams went in so definitely its the cams causing the noise.

 

[ajpagosa]

Now I'm wondering if some of those lift/duration specs are typos. VAC sells N54 Cat cams as well, take a look at the specs for them:

Cat Cams Camshaft Set, BMW N54

Duration (Degrees): 266°/266° 10.00mm/10.00mm Lift; 274°/270° 10.50mm/10.25mm Lift; 283°/274° 11.00mm/10.50mm Lift.

store.vacmotorsports.com

Both Shrick, would be high lift in comparison to all three Cat options though two of the Cat have longer durations on both intake and exhaust.

 

[gmagnus7]

Now I'm wondering if some of those lift/duration specs are typos. VAC sells N54 Cat cams as well, take a look at the specs for them:
Both Shrick, would be high lift in comparison to all three Cat options though two of the Cat have longer durations on both intake and exhaust.

To use the stock valvetrain, they have to know the exact specifications of the springs and plan the cam lobes accordingly especially if they're increasing both lift and duration. If you go on their website, they've determined the maximum lift that the stock springs can handle to be 11mm intake and 10.5mm exhaust. Compared to Schrick with 12mm and 11mm it's a bit less but maybe CAT was a little more on the cautious side to prevent any chance of valve float. Also, more duration allows a slightly more gentle cam lobe for an equivalent valve lift value (or alternatively more lift for the same lobe ramp). My guess is that they decided on a certain lobe ramp for the stock springs and stuck with the valve lift values that were appropriate - that's why you see the lift increasing with the higher duration cams.

 

[ajpagosa]

Looks like stock specs are 239°/263° - 9.60mm/9.70mm. Heck of a lot more duration vs. stock on intake on these aftermarket cams.

ENGINE SELECTION | CAT CAMS performance camshafts

 

[gmagnus7]

Looks like stock specs are 239°/263° - 9.60mm/9.70mm. Heck of a lot more duration vs. stock on intake on these aftermarket cams.

Yep, stock intake duration is pathetically small. Even most of the aftermarket cams are still VERY mild.

 

[JohnDaviz]

@martymil i recommend to talk to some engineers in development companies. A colleague of mine was working as a development engineer in an engine development company (fev.com). They develop engines for probably all EU OEMs. He said that when knock or timing corrections occur in fields where they don´t make sense, they increase the timing. There was really a lot of technical stuff i did not understand. What i remember is that he said that this is a special phenomenon and you can avoid it by increasing timing advance.

But i played with my car running 102 oct and timing of 4 degrees at 3k rpm and 8 at 7krpm and had corrections. He said. increase timing advance. So now i am running 7 degrees at 3k rpm and 11 at 7k rpm with not a single correction.

Sounds stupid.. but at this point at least i am the stupid guy not understanding what he said.. but it worked.

 

[martymil]

Dude I'll try anything atm, I'll give it a go

 

[JohnDaviz]

Dude I'll try anything atm, I'll give it a go

what i figured also was a nice timing advance increase line in the tables. So like every 500 rpm 0.5 degree more of timing advance.

 

[Slowagon54]

what i figured also was a nice timing advance increase line in the tables. So like every 500 rpm 0.5 degree more of timing advance.

Most of the OTS Maps do that. But having V8bait tuning your car is like having breakfast with Bezos Ex-Wife. Cant get better.

 

[JohnDaviz]

Most of the OTS Maps do that. But having V8bait tuning your car is like having breakfast with Bezos Ex-Wife. Cant get better.

There are ppl who want to tune on their own
Justin tought me a lot so that i can do it on my own. Best guy out there.

 

[RuskiRacer]

Dude I'll try anything atm, I'll give it a go

Do you have a video of the car idling? Would like to hear what a cammed n54 sounds like

 

[martymil]

Here you go

20200908_074717.mp4

MP4 File

1drv.ms

 

[martymil]

I've got a funny feeling this is why Schrick discontinued the low lifts but its only a theory so far.

Once I get these new knock sensors from Tony this will tell if these are causing the issue or not.

The logs look perfect in everyway otherwise.