New HPFP Upgrade - SpoolPerformance Helix

[Jeffman]

Great video, BTW.

I was a little surprised to see just three long skinny 5mm bolts holding the Helix and the HPFP all together. As an engineer, my spidey senses started tingling telling me that such a long combination may subject the three skinny bolts to too much torque when under load. Time and customer experience will tell. If this indeed becomes a problem then I would suggest a possible redesign with separate bolts and holes for the Helix to the engine, and the HPFP to the Helix.

Also btw, the instructions are very informative. I’ll make sure to have a long 5mm hex key handy. Better yet, include a long 5mm hex with the instruction booklet as they do at IKEA LOL.

 

[Jeffman]

Fuel hose seems like an after thought so hopefully they'll get it sorted. Needs a 45 deg coupler on both ends and a 90 deg elbow on the fuel rail I think. You don't want the hose rubbing on the OFH or a tight bend radius like you see near the pump. Hose could fail over time.

Good point. A new pre-shaped hard line would be preferable. Lower compliance losses than a hose.

 

[Erichale77]

Who is tuning this for you? @Slow335is

 

[SJ_1989]

Good point. A new pre-shaped hard line would be preferable. Lower compliance losses than a hose.

Agree, hard line is preferred because you can have a much tighter bend radius....higher cost though. If you measure the HPFP pressure with a sample rate of probably at least 500 hz you will see the pressure oscillating at the piston pass frequency of the pump (calculated based on pump speed and number of pistons). This in turn causes the hose to vibrate ever so slightly. Put a few thousand miles on the hose and I bet you see some wear from the OFH based on my experience. Tubes have lower compliance losses (higher system bulk modulus) too as long as the hose isn't super stiff....which can be good or bad depending on the system. Caterpillar XT-hose is a 4 wire steel braided hose. Super stiff and acts like a tube...drives me nuts because it's used in places it shouldn't be.

Another interesting tid bit lol....the new hose is longer and looks larger in ID. Thus you now added more fuel mass and changed the natural frequency of the hose. If this natural frequency is near the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc harmonic of the pump or VCV you could get noise (instability) and/or controlability issues. Rare but it does happen. Day in the life of SJ_1989 haha.

 

[BOosted 335i]

@Slow335is did you check what the overdrive ratio was? Is it 3x or 4x? There are two versions so I was told. Whether or not both are going into production I don't know.

was wondering the overdrive ratio also.would there be different ratio levels for what hp levels?So theres no need to overdrive the pump too much for certain hp range.

 

[gmagnus7]

Pretty sure it's been said to be 3x, but I could be wrong

 

[Jeffman]

Agree, hard line is preferred because you can have a much tighter bend radius....higher cost though. If you measure the HPFP pressure with a sample rate of probably at least 500 hz you will see the pressure oscillating at the piston pass frequency of the pump (calculated based on pump speed and number of pistons). This in turn causes the hose to vibrate ever so slightly. Put a few thousand miles on the hose and I bet you see some wear from the OFH based on my experience. Tubes have lower compliance losses (higher system bulk modulus) too as long as the hose isn't super stiff....which can be good or bad depending on the system. Caterpillar XT-hose is a 4 wire steel braided hose. Super stiff and acts like a tube...drives me nuts because it's used in places it shouldn't be.

Another interesting tid bit lol....the new hose is longer and looks larger in ID. Thus you now added more fuel mass and changed the natural frequency of the hose. If this natural frequency is near the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc harmonic of the pump or VCV you could get noise (instability) and/or controlability issues. Rare but it does happen. Day in the life of SJ_1989 haha.

I like your informative comments. Time will tell. And hopefully the beta testers will also report back on any such issues concerning the hose.

 

[Slow335is]

Who is tuning this for you? @Slow335is

Ken from wedge is the only tuner right now who’s been working with them.

 

[Slow335is]

It’s only the 3x the 4x will never go into production

 

[SJ_1989]

It’s only the 3x the 4x will never go into production

Interesting. Spool told me the beta's are 3x which everyone is receiving right now. However, they are sending me a 4x. I'll confirm in a few weeks though with a video. It's waiting for me at the shop but the guy is on vacation for two weeks and didn't leave me a key....

Ken from wedge is the only tuner right now who’s been working with them.

I hope this doesn't end up like anti-lag where the modifications are locked to a custom tune. That'd be dumb disappointing for those who self tune.

*edit*
Came across this thread here . Sounds like the tables will be made public eventually. Didn't see it in my latest xdf.

 

[Traf]

Is the HPFP resting on something ? I assume that would put a lot of stress on the vacuum pump

 

[SJ_1989]

Is the HPFP resting on something ? I assume that would put a lot of stress on the vacuum pump

No, I noticed that as well. I think I'm going to get a bracket made to support it though. Added insurance.

 

[chrisdfv]

My HPFP lasted about 25k miles running E85. It didn't fail, but I noticed my rail pressure wasn't where it used to be.
It was originally purchased from FCP for about $350, but when I went to buy a replacement I noticed they were closer to $500 a few months ago. I was worried I would only get reimbursed my original purchase, but FCP reimbursed me for the full amount that I paid for the second pump once they receive my old one.

I've gone through several sets of spark plugs, and coils from them as well. I've only paid for them once, and get reimbursed every time they receive my old set.

 

[Jeffman]

Is the HPFP resting on something ? I assume that would put a lot of stress on the vacuum pump

That’s my concern as well, as I posted above in #341. I’d love to see the [Vacuum pump - Helix Spinny Thing - HFPF] supported better. ...

Oh, I just had a great idea how to do this.

A preformed fuel hard line connected between the rail and HFPF would support it.

 

[SJ_1989]

A preformed fuel hard line connected between the rail and HFPF would support it.

I'll probably pull out one of the bolts holding the HPFP to the vac pump or one of the VCV bolts, attach a bracket, and run it somewhere to the engine if I can find a nearby bolt. Then find a longer bolt to make up for the thickness of the bracket. Won't take much to support it. For all I know it may not be an issue. I'm just going off things I look at when designing pump stacks.

 

[RNM]

Technically it still is fruad. They are expecting you to abuse a stock car, not a highly modified one. When you buy a new car or a certified one your covered as long as the car stays stock so you can drive it hard and abuse it all you want and your covered. They do not cover modified parts or parts that modify other parts. So if you think you still believe that your right or morally right then do what ever you want, but just remember when things do get abused by customers and when that happens on a level that costs a company 50k+ it just screws it up for the rest of us.

Costco used to have the same policy on electronics but the people who only think about ways to cheat other companys to save a buck (when you know your wrong for doing it) just remember that if fcpeuro decides to start having exclusions or gets more strict everyone will remember thos thread, and the people who caused a policy change. Do what ever you want, just dont be mad if fcp catches on and denies people eventually.

No doubt that you should stick with port injection. I personally will do what I want and if my hpfp takes a dump, you are damn right I will be sending it back to fcp for a replacement as it says on their website.

 

[Bnks334]

Ah good, I think we're bordering on having the majority of this thread being about the FCPeuro return policy and not the Helix product. Maybe we could change the thread name....

What is there to talk about? Hype up a product that doesn't exist yet? spread more rumors? This thread hasn't had any substance since page 1 (no offense to anyone).

 

[tisdrew]

I agree, there's nothing to talk about until the beta testers release more info so it would've been preferable to have a clean thread full of info instead of misc garbage for 10 pages.

 

[BQTuning]

Can we please move the FCP discussion to its own thread ? This thread got derailed the last couple of pages.

 

[9krpmrx8]

So get us back on track, what ya got?