New HPFP Upgrade - SpoolPerformance Helix

[Panzerfaust]

For everyone that asked me ( I think a whole 3), yes I did get a special version of a tune/special tuning for the pump to work. As @jyamona said, theres more to the tuning side to get everything running properly, at least from my understanding. I wont comment on what I do know is going on there, as I know for sure that's part of the whole Beta process. I dont see why people are upset that only one person is able to currently tune things for a *BETA* product - that's probably how it should be and Ken has been around long enough and helped with a lot of N54 things that I think he was a good choice.

2 things to note, one of which is an addendum to my previous post:
1. I did switch to Ken as a tuner when getting my Beta unit, and when it's all said and done I don't regret it. My previous tuner did a good job yes, but the car still wasnt quite where I wanted it to be and comparing the 5 or 6 revisions to Ken's 2 revisions I'm happier with the car now than before. I can only assume eventually all big name tuners will be able to tune this, but as I said before I think sticking to one tuner during the beta process was a smart choice for consistancy purposes.

2. My beta unit is actually a 4x overdrive, not the 3x that will be released soon. Take that along with the other information I offered for what you will, but I think that just goes to show even more positives for the Helix OD especially concerning longevity etc.

 

[fmorelli]

2. My beta unit is actually a 4x overdrive, not the 3x that will be released soon. Take that along with the other information I offered for what you will, but I think that just goes to show even more positives for the Helix OD especially concerning longevity etc.

Longevity? How many miles do you have on it?

Filippo

 

[Panzerfaust]

Longevity? How many miles do you have on it?

Filippo

I dont have that many on mine, maybe 1-1300 out of the 80k or so on my HPFP which I know isnt much - I was referring to how Spool has mentioned another user with my same OD (the 4x) has had his running for 30k+ with no issues. People in this thread were doing guestimations as if they were foolproof that youd probably only get 6-24k out of a pump running one of these and I highly doubt that. Yes more spinning=more wear, but like I also mentioned the Helix also doesnt have your rail pressure at 2400+ at all times and there's been other tests by Spool showing that you'll still get longevity out of your pump despite the Helix.

 

[Jake@MHD]

I dont have that many on mine, maybe 1-1300 out of the 80k or so on my HPFP which I know isnt much - I was referring to how Spool has mentioned another user with my same OD (the 4x) has had his running for 30k+ with no issues. People in this thread were doing guestimations as if they were foolproof that youd probably only get 6-24k out of a pump running one of these and I highly doubt that. Yes more spinning=more wear, but like I also mentioned the Helix also doesnt have your rail pressure at 2400+ at all times and there's been other tests by Spool showing that you'll still get longevity out of your pump despite the Helix.

The rail pressure will not be what determines it's reliability.

 

[NoQuarter]

Right... It still spins 3x faster at any given RPM. The DME/VCV just allows less fuel to enter to keep the pressure on point.

 

[V8bait]

Come on man. Hoarding? the HPFP control isn't simple and I think there's still a bit more work to be done. There's flow control mode, pressure control mode, flow to pressure transition and vice versa, fuel volume model, fuel volume req to amp current req, amp current req to duty cycle, current controller P and I, current adaptations, fuel req PID, and a few more I can't think of off the top of my head.

Cool, I'm finishing up my build, have the scope fired up, a dynojet with eddy current down the street to play with, and a brand new hpfp installed after my 120k mile one died on my first pull. I'd love to help test them and already reached out, would IK rom help?

Have shotguns, double shotguns, and helix guys chomping at the bits. You tell them it's not a magic bullet because I've tried. They sniff tables and it hits the fan.

 

[Panzerfaust]

The rail pressure will not be what determines it's reliability.

Like I admitted before, no it won't be the single thing that makes it or breaks it, but wouldn't you agree that any pump would last longer not running at full tilt all the time, even if it's still being spun faster in general? The amount of fuel flowing through the pump still has to have some effect on lifespan I would imagine, whether its stock speed, shotgun or Helix.

No one complains about longevity of a LPFP being run at 100% all the time its active if connected to a hobbs, and I've yet to see anyone complain about their secondary pump always running if hardwired or using the BPM4 instead of being on/off on demand at a lower duty cycle than any of those options offers. In my mind this is a high performance, significant modification aftermarket part. If someone wants the stock longevity etc, they can simply stay stock or go PI. For others of us, this is seeming to be the perfect option in my personal opinion.

 

[bahn]

Like I admitted before, no it won't be the single thing that makes it or breaks it, but wouldn't you agree that any pump would last longer not running at full tilt all the time, even if it's still being spun faster in general? The amount of fuel flowing through the pump still has to have some effect on lifespan I would imagine, whether its stock speed, shotgun or Helix.

No one complains about longevity of a LPFP being run at 100% all the time its active if connected to a hobbs, and I've yet to see anyone complain about their secondary pump always running if hardwired or using the BPM4 instead of being on/off on demand at a lower duty cycle than any of those options offers. In my mind this is a high performance, significant modification aftermarket part. If someone wants the stock longevity etc, they can simply stay stock or go PI. For others of us, this is seeming to be the perfect option in my personal opinion.

The stock LPFP does run all the time but it's speed is controlled via PWM from the EKP. A LPFP connected via a hobbs switch also doesn't run all of the time, it's off until a specific pressure is met on the hobbs switch (generally 15psi). Furthermore the LPFP's were designed to run constantly with a maximum defined RPM, over driving.

 

[Jake@MHD]

Like I admitted before, no it won't be the single thing that makes it or breaks it, but wouldn't you agree that any pump would last longer not running at full tilt all the time, even if it's still being spun faster in general? The amount of fuel flowing through the pump still has to have some effect on lifespan I would imagine, whether its stock speed, shotgun or Helix.

No one complains about longevity of a LPFP being run at 100% all the time its active if connected to a hobbs, and I've yet to see anyone complain about their secondary pump always running if hardwired or using the BPM4 instead of being on/off on demand at a lower duty cycle than any of those options offers. In my mind this is a high performance, significant modification aftermarket part. If someone wants the stock longevity etc, they can simply stay stock or go PI. For others of us, this is seeming to be the perfect option in my personal opinion.

You are giving apples to oranges examples with the LPFP, as that is a secondary pump in that case. And even when it is active running at 100% DC, it isn't being driven 3x faster than the stock LPFP at 100% DC. The only thing that will prove reliability of the helix is multiple examples of it on cars after more time and miles.

 

[9krpmrx8]

Just some pics, this will be going my best buds 2011 E92 335i X Drive along with a PS2. It's much lighter than I would have thought but the quality is great. Can't wait to get mine.

 

[H3dge]

Like I said, unsure if adding a checkbox for this makes sense. The OD can be used by stock turbo users who want full E85, mild twin upgrades, ST cars, etc and the table settings will vary.

Why wouldn't it make sense? The majority of people are flashing tunes OTS tunes through MHD, including JB4 tunes, and MHD packaged tunes. They have options for ADV Sensors, Different coil packs like BL R8 coils and PR coils. If someone is flashing a tune and they dont have the overdrive, just dont checkmark the Helix option. Its not like the Helix suddenly changes how your tune functions if it's already tuned to E85, it just helps get the E85 to the injectors at a certain pressure. After that, its up to your tune.

 

[Jake@MHD]

Why wouldn't it make sense? The majority of people are flashing tunes OTS tunes through MHD, including JB4 tunes, and MHD packaged tunes. They have options for ADV Sensors, Different coil packs like BL R8 coils and PR coils. If someone is flashing a tune and they dont have the overdrive, just dont checkmark the Helix option. Its not like the Helix suddenly changes how your tune functions if it's already tuned to E85, it just helps get the E85 to the injectors at a certain pressure. After that, its up to your tune.

Simple, because the tuning adjustments for those hardware changes are "one size fits all", or better yet "only one correct set of values". ADV changes the lambda characterization line among other things, coils you change the dwell time appropriately, etc.

For something like this, there isn't one "correct" set of table values. It will depend entirely upon your car, health of your HPFP that you are overdriving, fuel, supporting mods, and power level.

 

[H3dge]

Simple, because the tuning adjustments for those hardware changes are "one size fits all", or better yet "only one correct set of values". ADV changes the lambda characterization line among other things, coils you change the dwell time appropriately, etc.

For something like this, there isn't one "correct" set of table values. It will depend entirely upon your car, health of your HPFP that you are overdriving, fuel, supporting mods, and power level.

When I sent my tune adjustments to be done by Spool, the HPFP targets are still adjusted via tune, so that doesn't differ if you're already getting a full E85 tune without Port.

All spool had to change on my tune for my install was, and i'm quoting from them directly: "Current and PWM signal duty cycle for increased travel on hpfp inlet valve".
I was able to hit my custom BEF rail pressure that I set, but wasn't given the XDFs to make the changes myself. With their changes, all I mod is the HPFP targets and am able to hit them.

But i'm not an expert, I'm sure Spool and MHD folks know way more than I can put into words.

 

[Jake@MHD]

When I sent my tune adjustments to be done by Spool, the HPFP targets are still adjusted via tune, so that doesn't differ if you're already getting a full E85 tune without Port.

All spool had to change on my tune for my install was, and i'm quoting from them directly: "Current and PWM signal duty cycle for increased travel on hpfp inlet valve".
I was able to hit my custom BEF rail pressure that I set, but wasn't given the XDFs to make the changes myself. With their changes, all I mod is the HPFP targets and am able to hit them.

But i'm not an expert, I'm sure Spool and MHD folks know way more than I can put into words.

If Spool works out some settings that can be applied generically across all types of vehicles and a wide range of power levels, then it will be considered as an addition on the MHD side.

What they quoted you is a watered down version of the full scope of changes.

 

[scrllock]

No one complains about longevity of a LPFP being run at 100% all the time its active if connected to a hobbs, and I've yet to see anyone complain about their secondary pump always running if hardwired or using the BPM4 instead of being on/off on demand at a lower duty cycle than any of those options offers.

FWIW, the BPM4 also runs pumps at a variable duty cycle, it doesn't work like a hobbs switch.

 

[Panzerfaust]

I'm aware of how the LPFPs work, and how they differ in design from the HPFP but that wasnt really my point.

I guess I should compare it more to turbos - if you want them to last 105k miles, you're gonna run stock turbos at stock speeds. If you're chasing the max HP available to you, you're going to either get a tune that increases boost significantly or go with a different setup entirely and push that one even harder... and they wont last as long as the stock setup. Imo it's usually a known trade-off that the more you mod something the more often you'll be doing maintenance, yet few complain when their turbos only last 25k or they break an axle knowing that they're pushing things hard.

 

[Bnks334]

All spool had to change on my tune for my install was, and i'm quoting from them directly: "Current and PWM signal duty cycle for increased travel on hpfp inlet valve".
I was able to hit my custom BEF rail pressure that I set, but wasn't given the XDFs to make the changes myself. With their changes, all I mod is the HPFP targets and am able to hit them.

But i'm not an expert, I'm sure Spool and MHD folks know way more than I can put into words.

You're missing the part where they didn't say BY HOW MUCH they changed the duty cycle by... Every car needs the tables tuned for their specific fuel demand. At the very least the MHD setting would have to be a slider that users would have to dial in them-self by reviewing logs. Quite frankly, I can't see that working out too well and I don't even think the tuning changes are that simple for that to even work.

You're comments are analogous to saying MHD should just have a checkbox for WGDC/boost as if every tune and every turbo need the exact same wgdc to produce the same boost/power. Or, similar to how BMS provides generic "BEF" tunes for their users. You can their generic ethanol maps to get your fuel trims closer to where they belong instead of them being maxed out, but, you likely won't get anywhere near 0% trims like a custom tune can do when dialed in for your mods.

 

[9krpmrx8]

 

[MDORPHN]

Good video. What needs to be done on the low pressure side to take advantage of this HPFP upgrade?

FWIW, I'm running MOTIV single-turbo with a Gen2 GTX3576r and a Stage 2 Fuel-It set-up. Not looking for more than 550 -600 whp, but may want to add Flex-Fuel and E85 mix in future.

Thanks.

Neil

 

[BOosted 335i]

From the video looks like Spool is coming out with a inline filter and short hose connection to stock lpfp line.nice touch for people not wanting to replace whole line to lpfp fuel tank.