I meant the conversion from a single turbo outlet to this intercooler core which has dual inlets. Or the manufacture of a cooler with just a single inlet.
N54 water to air intercooler street build
- Thread starter bantam
- Start date
Are you referring to this? While it has been done, this doesn't give any information. I know it can be done, but how it is done and what it looks like, clearance etc.
Are there more photos that I'm missing?
Edit:
Okay now I see a bit more, don't think this photo was here last time I looked. Would like to get some closeups
Are there more photos that I'm missing?
Edit:
Okay now I see a bit more, don't think this photo was here last time I looked. Would like to get some closeups
Last edited:
Curious as to the realistic gains to be had here, and what kind of weight we are talking. Moving the weight of a large FMIC away from the front crash bar to an area behind the front wheels is pretty appealing to me.
For me, the possibility of sub ambient temps is what I'm drawn to. That alone is worth it to me. I just don't like the cost of these aftermarket intercoolers, $2k+.
The cores can't be too pricey, and then have a local shop fab endtanks...gotta be a way to make a custom one for wayyyyy less.
Sub ambient temps are great, but for those who race (even just the weekend warrior) W2A brings consistency that you can't get from A2A. Ice water will chill the intake charge to 40F every single pass no matter what the ambient temp.
And racing, like most things, is about consistency and repeatability.
Then of course for those crazy people who decide to live next door to the Devil at the fiery gates of hell (Phoenix), there's the ability to have sub 140F intake temps which is good
Not sure if the OP has looked into heat exchangers yet, but CSF offers a standard and race version for the f8x. Also, not sure it it fits our cars, but worth a look.
http://www.rogueengineering.com/CSF...Exchanger_p_266.html?_sm_byp=iVVTTkgpPnPqZQJ7
http://www.rogueengineering.com/CSF...Exchanger_p_266.html?_sm_byp=iVVTTkgpPnPqZQJ7
I was looking at this same one. I would love to see some heat soak data on the stock f80 setup, as well as how this would fit an e9x.
I hope so, but something tells me there is a reason they cost a lot. The price is seemingly crazy expensive, and the stock one is another dusty waffle turd.
Chris at Motiv said the oem A2W is trash on the F8x cars. Haven't pushed him too much to see what power level they're basing that on. I like the idea of how much it simplifies the charge pipe routing, but can see where it would also complicate a bunch of other stuff. Guess we'll just have to wait and see what the OP pulls off.
Interesting. Most of the S55 owners I've seen say there's almost no benefit to the $2k CSF/VF A2W core for suppression and CSF themselves said there was a 10F diff over stock on the dyno, but that was maybe only 80-85F ambient. That could've been all heat exchanger. I think even the stock S55 A2W could be major benefit to those of us where it's 100+ during the day and still 98F at 1am for 4-5 months straight
He may have just been comparing the A2W and our A2A. I didn't press much, but maybe I should pester him some more. lolInteresting. Most of the S55 owners I've seen say there's almost no benefit to the $2k CSF/VF A2W core for suppression and CSF themselves said there was a 10F diff over stock on the dyno, but that was maybe only 80-85F ambient. That could've been all heat exchanger. I think even the stock S55 A2W could be major benefit to those of us where it's 100+ during the day and still 98F at 1am for 4-5 months straight
So for the heat exchanger, I had what I thought was a brilliant and eloquent solution. I took 2 single pass heat exchangers and modified them to be a single double-pass exchanger by creating a passage between the end tanks. This setup fits flawlessly into the stock intercooler location (requires cutting of plasic) and makes for pretty convenient water routing on the driver's side. both cores are about 25" x 5" x 2" deep.
Here's the "Pretty" side showing the passage between tanks.
Here is the bottom with a piece of sheetmetal to join them for capturing the airflow. (I plan to use a thin aluminum tape across the top for the same purpose)
This is how it sits within the front shroud, still allowing air to travel up and over from the lower grill to pass through the rad and condenser core.
Here are where the connection points are, just under the driver's side brake duct.
And here's where things get ugly, I had to shorten the end tanks on this side and notch out some fins to get the exchanger to sit squarely, since the end tank for the condenser sits lower on the driver's side than the passenger's. It was absolutely screwed by my original fabricator, he couldn't get it to stop leaking and burned through the tubes on the back side (left in photo).
I took it to a radiator repair shop, they were able to "save" it by blocking off the damaged tubes and slathering epoxy on it. They also apparently overpressured the damned thing and bulged some tubes (not really visible in photo).
It does not leak, but it will also not be performing to its full potential. This will be a band-aid just for getting the darned thing running. In the mean time, I am working to have another one built by someone else.
My plan for additional cooling capacity (if needed for regular operation) is to add another cooler to the driver's fender well with some good ducting.
If this thing works well, I will put out a drawing so that you can have your own heat exchangers built if you want.
Here's the "Pretty" side showing the passage between tanks.
Here is the bottom with a piece of sheetmetal to join them for capturing the airflow. (I plan to use a thin aluminum tape across the top for the same purpose)
This is how it sits within the front shroud, still allowing air to travel up and over from the lower grill to pass through the rad and condenser core.
Here are where the connection points are, just under the driver's side brake duct.
And here's where things get ugly, I had to shorten the end tanks on this side and notch out some fins to get the exchanger to sit squarely, since the end tank for the condenser sits lower on the driver's side than the passenger's. It was absolutely screwed by my original fabricator, he couldn't get it to stop leaking and burned through the tubes on the back side (left in photo).
I took it to a radiator repair shop, they were able to "save" it by blocking off the damaged tubes and slathering epoxy on it. They also apparently overpressured the damned thing and bulged some tubes (not really visible in photo).
It does not leak, but it will also not be performing to its full potential. This will be a band-aid just for getting the darned thing running. In the mean time, I am working to have another one built by someone else.
My plan for additional cooling capacity (if needed for regular operation) is to add another cooler to the driver's fender well with some good ducting.
If this thing works well, I will put out a drawing so that you can have your own heat exchangers built if you want.
Just using the Bosch cobra pump that you see everywhere online.
I have not worked out all of the hoses yet, but that is the least of my worries. I need to re-route my intakes, thinking that will be some pain.
Also, I am not decided on a pump control scheme. The other guy said he just used a timer to delay it from starting, then let it run full tilt all the time, I dont like that.
Casually thinking out loud here:
I think that I would like a scheme that has the pump run continuously at a lower speed, then ramps up the speed proportional to boost or engine load. It should also have a “recovery” mode where the pump should also run faster when the temp differential between the heat exchanger exit and ambient exceeds x degrees. And then it would return to normal low speed mode.
I have no idea how to implement such a thing, suggestions welcome!
I am located in Dallas, TX... so pretty hot, but not Phoenix hot!
I have not worked out all of the hoses yet, but that is the least of my worries. I need to re-route my intakes, thinking that will be some pain.
Also, I am not decided on a pump control scheme. The other guy said he just used a timer to delay it from starting, then let it run full tilt all the time, I dont like that.
Casually thinking out loud here:
I think that I would like a scheme that has the pump run continuously at a lower speed, then ramps up the speed proportional to boost or engine load. It should also have a “recovery” mode where the pump should also run faster when the temp differential between the heat exchanger exit and ambient exceeds x degrees. And then it would return to normal low speed mode.
I have no idea how to implement such a thing, suggestions welcome!
I am located in Dallas, TX... so pretty hot, but not Phoenix hot!
Your pump control ideas sound like a good way to go to maximize component life. In essence, a mimic of the way our water pumps operate. I wonder if the M3/4s have any special control scheme? I'll check with Jake and Chris at Motiv, since they tune them, and report back. Depending on the Cobra pump price, the oem pump is like $200 on fcp euro and will have a lifetime warranty. Just foot for thought.
Short answer for pump control is there's a good amount of logic looking at ambient temp, fan speed, etc. Might be worthwhile to do some digging on the F8x boards or google to get the full scoop.
Once you know the logic you want to use for implementation a Can shield could take all available data and process it into pwm or on off for the pump.
@bantam any chance you could get measurements of the ic at some point? I'd like to model up and run some analysis on an ic the same size as stock, but with the core designed around microtubes like the Mezzo tech A2W cores, and then see what the cost to produce would be. Basically just need the core length, width, and height are to start.
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