MMP1k logs -- Boost leak?

[morffius]

Finally just bit the bullet and did the Chris test and directly connected the Vac lines to the wastegates bypassing the solenoids. I have the logs below.

I also connected my vac meter with the car on and it sustains a good 21-22 inHg without dropping at idle.

To my untrained eye it seems like the turbos are not turboing. (Thanks Chris)

https://datazap.me/u/morffius/directly-connected-wastegates?log=0&data=23

I didn't read through the whole thread, but if you're not sure the turbos are turbo-ing, you can easily figure it out, with the caveat that you're TAKING YOUR MOTOR'S LIFE INTO YOUR OWN HANDS IF YOU ARE TOO STUPID TO GET OFF THE THROTTLE IN TIME. Basically, bypass all the boost solenoid BS and run your vac pump line straight to the turbo actuators. The actuators will be fully closed (assuming they're ok). Go, in first gear, slowly drive out (start logging when practically at idle) then stand on it until you start to build boost. You must immediately get out of the throttle, or she's going to build as much boost as is possible as fast as is possible. If they're healthy you'll be building boost in a hurry.

We've done this plenty of times to figure out if a car had odd control issues, solenoid issues, etc. Just use your head, it's a useful tip but if you are foolish you'll definitely blow your stuff up.

Chris

 

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

Oh yeah, that's definitely some wastegate issue or whatnot. I fully understand wanting and expecting 100% functioning products but sometimes shit happens in shipping/etc (giving the benefit of the doubt here), so I'd get under the car and manually actuate them and see if there is something catching or otherwise easily adjustable by you. Should you have to do that? No. At the end of the day, though, it's a pain in the ass to pull turbos, ship, etc. so if it's "easyish" fix it may be worth taking some troubleshooting into your own hands. On the other hand I'm not MMP so don't violate your own warranty taking advice from a competitor (can't wait to see how that one gets spinned… Chris @ vargasturbo showed me how to ruin my brand x turbos and get no warranty....lol). Glad the steps were at least a little helpful for you. Make sure it's not something stupid like a giant hole in your outlet/etc, but to me spool looks super lazy and I suspect you're losing a lot of flow through wastegates -not there to really know though. Good luck in your resolution!

Chris

 

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

P.S. Your link is jacked for some reason:

https://datazap.me/u/morffius/directly-connected-wastegates?log=0&data=3-23

 

[morffius]

I did take the downpipes off this weekend and the wastegates did close at 5.5 and seemed stable. The outlet is coming out this weekend. I hope it’s the outlet.

Oh yeah, that's definitely some wastegate issue or whatnot. I fully understand wanting and expecting 100% functioning products but sometimes shit happens in shipping/etc (giving the benefit of the doubt here), so I'd get under the car and manually actuate them and see if there is something catching or otherwise easily adjustable by you. Should you have to do that? No. At the end of the day, though, it's a pain in the ass to pull turbos, ship, etc. so if it's "easyish" fix it may be worth taking some troubleshooting into your own hands. On the other hand I'm not MMP so don't violate your own warranty taking advice from a competitor (can't wait to see how that one gets spinned… [email protected] showed me how to ruin my brand x turbos and get no warranty....lol). Glad the steps were at least a little helpful for you. Make sure it's not something stupid like a giant hole in your outlet/etc, but to me spool looks super lazy and I suspect you're losing a lot of flow through wastegates -not there to really know though. Good luck in your resolution!

Chris

 

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

If you test it... TEST IT. I.e. cap that SOB and put 30 psi to it. Don't goof around with 5 psi, cuddling it and asking it if it feels like being a good pressure vessel today. Don't shoot yourself in the eye with one of the caps, and if you do, take pics.

Chris

 

[langsbr]

How are you able to judge spool from that log? It never goes above 20% pedal?

 

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

I didn’t even look at pedal input. Needs to be WOT for short duration.

 

[langsbr]

I didn’t even look at pedal input. Needs to be WOT for short duration.

I didn't at first either, but got suspicious when it was only making 8psi at 6300, and target was at 2psi. From his previous logs, boost and target would meet past 4200 rpms, it just appeared that the wastegate wasn't closing until late (which it could still possibly be). Once I saw that, and requested load was only 74, I figured, this can't be WOT, but it runs all the way to redline! 20% throttle to redline must have been a weird ride, lol.

Chris, in your experience, wouldn't a boost leak of some sort present the opposite way? Proper spool, but then not meeting target? I just don't see how a leak could cause such poor spool, and then, BAM, everything is on track on the top end. I'm dying to know what the root cause of this is, but I am still leaning towards vaccum signal, or wastegates, or some combination therein.

@morffius, do you still have your vacuum canisters installed? Bypass them if so. Just run from the vacuum signal over the valve cover directly to the solenoids. It's unlikely, but they could be cracked and bleeding off vacuum. Then again, if that were the cause, it's unlikely that proper WGDC would be enough to make target and boost match.

 

[buster84]

Out of basic curiosity has the op tried to do a log with stock tuning? It's always good to test all the basics which even means your tune.

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

I did take the downpipes off this weekend and the wastegates did close at 5.5 and seemed stable. The outlet is coming out this weekend. I hope it’s the outlet.

Did the turbines spin freely and smoothly when you had the downpipes off? If they are spinning smoothly, the wastegates are adjusted properly (and functioning to a close with full vacuum applied); the only real wildcard left is just really horrid machining or design issue of the housings. Ideally that is not the issue, but if all else checks out (ie. impending intake tract pressure testing) it would be the next up to consider IMO.

Rob

 

[langsbr]

Out of basic curiosity has the op tried to do a log with stock tuning? It's always good to test all the basics which even means your tune.

Probably not a good idea with MMPs since WGDC is so different.

 

[morffius]

How are you able to judge spool from that log? It never goes above 20% pedal?

My bad. I think my subconscious didn’t want to blow up my engine. I’ll go WOT tonight.

2 days ago I bypassed the canisters with no change in spool.

 

[morffius]

Did the turbines spin freely and smoothly when you had the downpipes off? If they are spinning smoothly, the wastegates are adjusted properly (and functioning to a close with full vacuum applied); the only real wildcard left is just really horrid machining or design issue of the housings. Ideally that is not the issue, but if all else checks out (ie. impending intake tract pressure testing) it would be the next up to consider IMO.

Rob

Both turbines spun very smoothly. What is hard to determine is if the wastegates, when closed, are sealed. They do both close at 5.5 with the ability to slightly spin them and with more vacuum they get tighter.

I will pressurize this weekend.

 

[morffius]

How are you able to judge spool from that log? It never goes above 20% pedal?

I didn’t even look at pedal input. Needs to be WOT for short duration.

WOT - directly connected to the turbos. No spool. I will pressure check this weekend.

https://datazap.me/u/morffius/vacuum-direct-waste-gate-wot?log=0&data=2-3-5-23-30

I am still concerned that I did something wrong. Maybe theres some space I left between the turbo and the manifold? These have a Vband between the two. Could air be leaking there? The pressure test should show that if it is, right?

 

[langsbr]

This makes even less sense now. With your wastegates connected directly to a vacuum source, you're making LESS boost than it was on one of the previous logs. This log is only making 3psi at 4200, while you were making 11 on the other log, with 66% WGDC.

I don't see how the V-bands can be leaking unless they are not tight and able to spin. What outlets do you have?

If this isn't a strangely weird boost leak, I'd vote that it's a wacky vaccum signal and you have a leak there somewhere.

 

[buster84]

This makes even less sense now. With your wastegates connected directly to a vacuum source, you're making LESS boost than it was on one of the previous logs. This log is only making 3psi at 4200, while you were making 11 on the other log, with 66% WGDC.

I don't see how the V-bands can be leaking unless they are not tight and able to spin. What outlets do you have?

If this isn't a strangely weird boost leak, I'd vote that it's a wacky vaccum signal and you have a leak there somewhere.

Boost leak, turbo problem or very bad tuning. I still say try his stock tune and see if he hits stock boost levels.

 

[langsbr]

Boost leak, turbo problem or very bad tuning. I still say try his stock tune and see if he hits stock boost levels.

With the log he just posted, the tune has no bearing or effect on boost. He has bypassed all tuning parameters for controlling the wastegates and they should be fully closed, even at idle. That doesn't appear to be the case, as he is making less boost now than when using the prior tune. His prior log showed that boost was just really late, but got very close to target after 4200rpms.

I would think boost leak, but it would seem counter intuitive, at least to me, to have a leak that is so bad you build very little boost until 4200, then it's like the leak is gone. I would expect a boost leak to present itself worse at higher rpms and pressures and not hit target.

 

[veer90]

Boost leak, turbo problem or very bad tuning. I still say try his stock tune and see if he hits stock boost levels.

Hell no, you'll rek ur shit with the stock tune on MMPs. Take the same wgdc for stock turbos and apply them to MMPs and you'll be making 20+ psi when the DME expects 8.

You want MHD stage 0 and see if it'll hit 8 psi.

 

[langsbr]

Hell no, you'll rek ur shit with the stock tune on MMPs. Take the same wgdc for stock turbos and apply them to MMPs and you'll be making 20+ psi when the DME expects 8.

You want MHD stage 0 and see if it'll hit 8 psi.

Hell, his custom tune has WGDC set at 85% and he's barely hitting 10psi. He even connected the vacuum signal right to the wastegates and is only getting 8psi now.

 

[Blaster3500]

Here is a log from 1k's. Your issues seem to be similar. I am curious to see if this is turbo related.

https://datazap.me/u/blaster3500/log-1533320770?log=0&data=3-21