Discussion about issues encountered whilst converting to M3 Flash and GWS

[Stokes]

Well, I know for a fact that the DSC is limiting trans behavior now. I took it for another test drive and couldn't go into S6 mode and while in M mode the car auto shifts from 1st to 2nd at 2700rpm no matter what.

All this is with the DSC all fudged up. So the DSC is integral in the transmission operation....

The uncalibrated DSC causes that. I swapped my DME temporarily and wrote the DME Vin to the DSC and then had to calibrate before it would drive correctly. The DCT would up shift really early. At around 3k rpm as some kind of safe mode. Never could tell if that was a TCU safety precaution procedure.

The DSC fix required Tool32 IIRC for getting it going again. If you have issues search for where others have replaced the DSC with a used unit.

EDIT: steering angle after calibration

Keep your wheels pointing straight.
Open Tool32 ->DSC_87.prg
Select "lenkwinkel dsc abgleichen"
enter your VIN and end it with 1

Repeat the above for 'c_fg_schreiben' and 'c_fg_auftrag'
Both use your VIN as argument (checksum at end, use 1)

ISTA-D generally will see the two issues and address it too. DSC is very sensitive to changes it seems.

 

[dyezak]

Yea, INPA, Tool32, and ISTA can all do the calibration for the DSC. I'm taking this opportunity to install ISTA because of the power it brings beyond the standard BMW Tools I have been using.

No sweat, this is why I have a DD right.

 

[LMB335is]

Yea, INPA, Tool32, and ISTA can all do the calibration for the DSC. I'm taking this opportunity to install ISTA because of the power it brings beyond the standard BMW Tools I have been using.

No sweat, this is why I have a DD right.

Bimmergeeks website has a good downloads section for all of this software and it's pretty up-to-date if you need it.

 

[NoQuarter]

I wish I could get ISTA to work. Maybe I will find the motivation to try again.

 

[dyezak]

If you don't have ISTA+ you need it. So much better than the BMW Tools. If you're having problems installing it follow this guide and everything works. He even provides links to the downloads in the description of the video if you load this in youtube.

 

[LMB335is]

He got it from here https://www.bimmergeeks.net/downloads

 

[dyezak]

Well, I have an interesting error that I can't clear that's related to the DKG module (mechtronics in the transmission) expecting some data from the DSC and not getting it...and the most interesting thing is that it looks like the message is supposed to be routed through the KOMBI:

DKG00CF21 Message (raw data for longitudinal accelleration) error from DSC, receiver DKG/EGS, transmitter DSC/KOMBI

ISTA+ is pretty neat...but I'm wondering how much of this is useful.

 

[dyezak]

So, learn from my DSC experience. If you flash your DSC you'll need to do the following after flashing to get it to function:

1. Calibration - there are two steps, calibrate the valves first the the operational component second
2. Coding - you have to recode the default in
3. Seems to have reset my brake pad maintenance so I had to fix that

Now I have a DSC on the most up to date DSC_87 ZB file no problem.

 

[RSL]

DSC valve calibration, such a soothing sound. Interesting on that error, maybe we'll need an M KOMBI too after all...or maybe there are still coding parameters that need to be done.

 

[dyezak]

It just dawned on me. It would be bad if we had an M3 DSC in the car with our standard rear diff. The M3 DSC doesn't have any provisions for e-diff as it doesn't need it...the M3 always had a mechanical LSD. So while it would be a decent test, it wouldn't get people where they need to be as they would have to throw in an LSD anyhow to prevent their cars from becoming slower due to reduced traction.

 

[derekgates]

It just dawned on me. It would be bad if we had an M3 DSC in the car with our standard rear diff. The M3 DSC doesn't have any provisions for e-diff as it doesn't need it...the M3 always had a mechanical LSD. So while it would be a decent test, it wouldn't get people where they need to be as they would have to throw in an LSD anyhow to prevent their cars from becoming slower due to reduced traction.

I had to restore my OEM GWS.


However, I PM'd hotsd on e90 post as he made a thread describing the M3 GWS swap into a DCT car. I asked if he had any trouble and if the DSC had to be replaced. He stated:

As we offer it as a commercial service we really need to be careful and hence need to to a compete conversion of all the systems. I found that you 100% require the dsc and szl units which are both m3 specific. The szl is 100% a requirement for mdm. I don't know if it can be done without.

This was done for a customer and he definitely loves it. He has about 600rwhp , no signs of slippage and when it bangs gears it feels like the drive line is about to rip out, the 3.85 does not help. I would say the life might be limited but worth case he might be up for upgrades clutches. The correct dsc is the only way I know or have made it work. I also used the lateral sensors and wss etc.

So, we are all on the right track. (szl is clockspring)

@dyezak would the E-Diff make a difference? It's baked into the DSC but if the M3 DSC doesn't have it then the car shouldn't be configured to look for it? I disabled mine in the DSC module (coding it off)...

 

[LMB335is]

I had to restore my OEM GWS.


However, I PM'd hotsd on e90 post as he made a thread describing the M3 GWS swap into a DCT car. I asked if he had any trouble and if the DSC had to be replaced. He stated:



So, we are all on the right track. (szl is clockspring)

@dyezak would the E-Diff make a difference? It's baked into the DSC but if the M3 DSC doesn't have it then the car shouldn't be configured to look for it? I disabled mine in the DSC module (coding it off)...

I have all the parts, just waiting on various bits and piece to get the gear ratio changed. Then I'll do the drivetrain and start adding in everything else. May take a month or two to get it all done though.

 

[NoQuarter]

All I have done is ask wavetrac to confirm the final drive ratio for the Z4.

Mine is sitting at the body shop for frame measurements to understand some body panel gap problems.

 

[RSL]

I had to restore my OEM GWS.

Giving up or just holding off until you can do the full conversion?

I always tune to keep the power to the ground no matter what, otherwise, it's a waste. If it's too bad, I'd do a 2.56 LSD, but generally keep the torque onset slow to avoid wheelspin/breaking things anyway.

 

[dyezak]

I had to restore my OEM GWS.


However, I PM'd hotsd on e90 post as he made a thread describing the M3 GWS swap into a DCT car. I asked if he had any trouble and if the DSC had to be replaced. He stated:



So, we are all on the right track. (szl is clockspring)

@dyezak would the E-Diff make a difference? It's baked into the DSC but if the M3 DSC doesn't have it then the car shouldn't be configured to look for it? I disabled mine in the DSC module (coding it off)...

The person you are talking to is not on the same page as you. He is doing MDM retrofits on M3's. MDM requires the SZL but there are plenty of DCT M3's without MDM optioned in.

Regardless I'm sure the DSC is required now; but I finally realize you can't do it alone. The DSC needs the hardware to support it (M3 Diff or an appropriate LSD in your factory Diff). If you dont' have the hardware and only do the DSC module swap you'll end up with a much slower car because the rear end will be a one wheel pusher at that point. The M3 DSC is designed with an LSD as a requirement.

 

[derekgates]

Giving up or just holding off until you can do the full conversion?

I always tune to keep the power to the ground no matter what, otherwise, it's a waste. If it's too bad, I'd do a 2.56 LSD, but generally keep the torque onset slow to avoid wheelspin/breaking things anyway.

The car isn't driveable. I have 2.56 diff ratio, MFactory LSD and the GWS. My car is missing something, such as the DSC but none of us know if that's what is needed. I can't keep my daily driver in limbo until that day. If the DSC is a module that needs replacing then I have help with the BMW master tech I live with.

The person you are talking to is not on the same page as you. He is doing MDM retrofits on M3's. MDM requires the SZL but there are plenty of DCT M3's without MDM optioned in.

Regardless I'm sure the DSC is required now; but I finally realize you can't do it alone. The DSC needs the hardware to support it (M3 Diff or an appropriate LSD in your factory Diff). If you dont' have the hardware and only do the DSC module swap you'll end up with a much slower car because the rear end will be a one wheel pusher at that point. The M3 DSC is designed with an LSD as a requirement.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1476524

N54 6hp to dct with gts tune and gws inc launch with euro mdm retrofit
We successfully completed this retrofit for a member who can post his results if he choses.

Basically a full retrofit is now available, supplied and fitted, 100% fully functional as it would be in an m3 without hesitation lag issues etc, integrated into the cic etc. We have a few m3/m4 flywheels to suit 6 bolt cranks (jan 09 and above, working on something for earlier n54s) which work allot better than stock. Any diff ratio can be made to work without issue, a 3.85 m3 rear end was used in this example and on a fbo is quiet brutal but picks up and boggies pretty hard.

Looking for a 1 series customer, coupe or hatch to do another. Also 1 other non n54 customer as I'm confident we can make the whole show work on any other 6cyl models. Also looking for anyone who would like to experiment with a zf8 on any 6cyl e9x / e8x platform, we have overcome security concerns with the zf8's which will be superior to the 6hp obviously but also the dct. Shift time vs dct can be made to be inconsequential and you get the best of both for a DD. Zf8s are definitely the future and it wouldn't be a surprise at all if the next entry M's favour it over dct. Pm contact number, vin and mods and we will reach out when ready. We have 3 additional full dct kits ready to roll, pricing will depend on specs.
Cheers

I am not sure this is on a different page from what is being attempted here.

Yes, LSD is expected in the M3 DSC but many have disabled the EDiff for a while (even without LSD). Lacking the EDiff doesn't seem like a big deal?

I personally have an MFactory LSD; a different combination than your setup. I asked about EDiff and a few other things and left unanswered. I don't feel like I am helping anymore so I'll back away. I look forward to your progress but I do not have the funds for a full rear M3 swap; turbos, injectors, cooling, etc are on my list instead.

 

[aus335iguy]

We can invite the guys from Brintech along if you guys like?

 

[RSL]

The car isn't driveable. I have 2.56 diff ratio, MFactory LSD and the GWS. My car is missing something, such as the DSC but none of us know if that's what is needed. I can't keep my daily driver in limbo until that day. If the DSC is a module that needs replacing then I have help with the BMW master tech I live with.



http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1476524



I am not sure this is on a different page from what is being attempted here.

Yes, LSD is expected in the M3 DSC but many have disabled the EDiff for a while (even without LSD). Lacking the EDiff doesn't seem like a big deal?

I personally have an MFactory LSD; a different combination than your setup. I asked about EDiff and a few other things and left unanswered. I don't feel like I am helping anymore so I'll back away. I look forward to your progress but I do not have the funds for a full rear M3 swap; turbos, injectors, cooling, etc are on my list instead.

I hear ya, was mostly curious if you were going to unload everything you picked up or not lol I'm not quite ready to do this yet (getting house ready to sell), but wouldn't necessarily not start picking up parts as I run across them.

I feel semi-confident the DSC swap will fix most, if not all. It's not a necessarily cheap requirement (new anyway), but wondering if the hydro units are the same on M/non-M and just the ECU/controllers are different. If that were the case, could potentially buy an M-DSC repair kit and install on the non-M DSC currently on the car. Probably still cheaper and easier to buy a complete M-DSC used, but might be a tad risky.

The FD ratio may still be a question mark, but they indicated it was working on all ratios, so maybe not. LSD may or may not be required depending what kind of power it's making. If it's tuned to not blow the tires off, not sure how much of a loss it would be. Anyone know if the e-diff does anything prior to actual traction loss?

 

[dyezak]

The car isn't driveable. I have 2.56 diff ratio, MFactory LSD and the GWS. My car is missing something, such as the DSC but none of us know if that's what is needed. I can't keep my daily driver in limbo until that day. If the DSC is a module that needs replacing then I have help with the BMW master tech I live with.



http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1476524



I am not sure this is on a different page from what is being attempted here.

Yes, LSD is expected in the M3 DSC but many have disabled the EDiff for a while (even without LSD). Lacking the EDiff doesn't seem like a big deal?

I personally have an MFactory LSD; a different combination than your setup. I asked about EDiff and a few other things and left unanswered. I don't feel like I am helping anymore so I'll back away. I look forward to your progress but I do not have the funds for a full rear M3 swap; turbos, injectors, cooling, etc are on my list instead.

Holy crap that's awesome! I knew he did MDM retrofits on M3's but didn't know he was tackling this same problem. I'll probably give him a ring on Monday.

BTW - He also mentions in the linked thread that the M3 GWS and GTS flash retrofit on an N54 doesn't need the SZL...that component is only needed for MDM.

 

[aus335iguy]

Yeah I’ve been chatting with him because I want MDM but don’t want to lose my active cruise. Smart bloke. Great shop and they’re only 10 mins up the road from me. Can’t seem to find the time to get my car there.