Bucketless sucks - I keep running out of gas at 3/4 of a tank.
- Thread starter twinturbos
- Start date
What's your Hobbs set too??
Yeah I only have 92 here, so I just wanted more volume, some people say the stock lpfp will die in this setup, do you run E/have you had any issues?
No bucketless setup with solve that issue completely, and many of the bucketed pumps still have the issue, although 3/4 tank is not right. You should have no issue at all at 3/4 tank.
From a simple perspective, you need to make sure your pumps are as low as possible in the fuel tank. This sounds obvious, like it's not even something I should have to say. I agree.
Make sure your in-tank returns are on the correct side. Assuming that's all in order...
You have a few budget friendly options that'll get you where you want to be. The first is just use a bucketed pump to start with. The second is shoot me an email and tell me what you want to use the car for, and say you want a stout venturi effect rather than max bucketed flow. It'll take a touch longer as I have to custom make that setup vs. grab a pre-made unit off the shelf, but it's totally doable.
I size the venturis for a particular pump flow rate, and to make sure the bucket fills (without any returns dumping in) under 100% pump duty cycle. It's just not that hard for me to custom size up the venturi, but understand in general you'll get less flow out of the pump(s). How much less flow? I don't think we need to be crazy people about it, but I can make sure you fill that bucket FAST. Downside? You may need to kick in your second pump earlier. I wouldn't do this for a strip monster, but for a street or track car... yup. No problem.
The other thing you can do is go with an externally plumbed second pump, run that line straight out of the pump to an external pressure regulator, and have that regulator return dump right back into the bucket. You'll have a lot of fuel dumping back in, greatly decreasing your chances of starvation.
Chris
From a simple perspective, you need to make sure your pumps are as low as possible in the fuel tank. This sounds obvious, like it's not even something I should have to say. I agree.
Make sure your in-tank returns are on the correct side. Assuming that's all in order...You have a few budget friendly options that'll get you where you want to be. The first is just use a bucketed pump to start with. The second is shoot me an email and tell me what you want to use the car for, and say you want a stout venturi effect rather than max bucketed flow. It'll take a touch longer as I have to custom make that setup vs. grab a pre-made unit off the shelf, but it's totally doable.
I size the venturis for a particular pump flow rate, and to make sure the bucket fills (without any returns dumping in) under 100% pump duty cycle. It's just not that hard for me to custom size up the venturi, but understand in general you'll get less flow out of the pump(s). How much less flow? I don't think we need to be crazy people about it, but I can make sure you fill that bucket FAST. Downside? You may need to kick in your second pump earlier. I wouldn't do this for a strip monster, but for a street or track car... yup. No problem.
The other thing you can do is go with an externally plumbed second pump, run that line straight out of the pump to an external pressure regulator, and have that regulator return dump right back into the bucket. You'll have a lot of fuel dumping back in, greatly decreasing your chances of starvation.
Chris
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Agreed that's best practice. That said...
Not sure what bucketless setup OP has, but take the widest dimensions of your bucketless bracket and shoot me an email with those dimensions. If the assembly can fit into an oem bucket, with a little help from someone like me, you could adapt it back to a bucketed assembly with functioning venturi for "not a billion dollars".
Chris
Hi, thanks for chiming in.
I have the fuel it stage 2 bucketless which i believe is a walbro 450. I've been running this for around 3 months now with constant issues when cornerning hard ( right turns/onramps/whatever ). Goal is not to be a drag car but I do however go to the strip. I don't need crazy flow as E85 is unavailable here so I'm running DI+meth on a docrace single 6266bb setup.
Dump that pump and get something from PFS, someone will buy it who doesn't do corners and you can get something more appropriate for your use case. I don't do corners in this car but I do lazy. When you procrastinate and get to below 1/4 tank it can happen at any moment, losing fuel pressure during a high RPM pull is not something that remote comes close to making a bucketless setup worth it in my opinion. Put a bucket on, slap on a second pump.
Def agree with doublespaces but I dont get why your having such bad problems as long as i am above quarter tank I can drift and play on street now if I am pushing very hard on long turns that's a diff story but it is something that would be issue at event or on r comps def but on 200tw or less it isnt that bad it just is something I regret.
Well I'd love to sell you a simple single shot, bucketed pump, but honestly you shouldn't have a problem with 3/4 tank full. Or, if you don't want to mess with that BS any more shoot me an email and I'll give you a healthy price on a single shot, genuine walbro, shipped, no drama. I size my venturis to make sure you don't run dry. You're running pump gas, a single shot should be all you need to keep a HPFP happy.
Thanks for the vote!
Chris
How much for a single 450 in bucket and I have my stock bucket still if it's cheaper to send in. I would rather have the venturing sized properly then me diy and possibly bot doing right . Only question is would this put higher load on ekp due to more restriction than bucketless?
No need to send in bucket, we use all new buckets, top hats, etc. Nothing used, no core charges. Most EKP's are fine with a single walbro, I haven't seen a difference with a bucketed vs. bucketless, in theory a bucketless would be a slightly lower load as it flows more with given amount of power, realistically I think if you have a weak EKP just replace it and be done messing around.
Website pricing is current, retail on a bucketed single shot (walbro) with new top hat is $529 shipped in US. I can do 10% off that for SS members, email me your user name here and I'll send you the code to use.
Chris
Just do what I did in 2017
plug it into your power wires of your disconnected OEM pump.
Let it sit under the main tank and bucket
Leave the fuel level sensor of the bucket connected so you know how much is in the tank
zip tie it to the bucket
plug it into your power wires of your disconnected OEM pump.
Let it sit under the main tank and bucket
Leave the fuel level sensor of the bucket connected so you know how much is in the tank
zip tie it to the bucket
PFS has really good customer service. Fuel It was good when they were getting started but honestly I am not happy with how Steve treated me the last couple conversations we had. Example: I was inquiring about their Stage 4 fuel system setup and he asked what else I had, when I told him I was running Evolution of Speed port injection he told me to throw it away and buy his instead. Not sure if any of you have ever used EOS products but they are top tier.
PFS is honestly the best option. The PR kit is okay but kind of a pain to build, I'm just not really a fan of anything bucketless without the hydramat.
PFS is honestly the best option. The PR kit is okay but kind of a pain to build, I'm just not really a fan of anything bucketless without the hydramat.
Yes their demonstration videos are really incredible. Can be viewed on youtube. Made me choose to fork out for a hydramat right away.
It isn't just you, he gets weird as soon as you start to mention competitors and denied me a couple years ago when I inquired about an LPFP. I was trying to support a local business (At an unnecessary premium mind you) and in return felt like I got a slap in the face. Feels like he wants to lock out every company that isn't him and gives off a slight offense when you mention you're doing business with someone else. Most of the complaints I've heard about him are about money and it is usually on the business side. The imagination doesn't have to work hard to think it is greed related. I've met Steve in person, seems to be a likable guy but the way he handles certain things rubs me the wrong way. Long story short, his account is banned for the same reason the others are. Just got tired of dealing with it.
In my dealings with EOS and PR, I've felt super spoiled. Email someone a question at 1am on the weekend expecting to wait a day or two, get a response in minutes. Can't speak for PFS but their presence in this thread is helpful, and I'd probably try out their external filter/FPR kit if I needed one, looks very well-priced.
Fuel-it seems to be quick to market, but could probably handle competition better. EOS has improved some things (the FI-650 sidepump vs. an aftermarket pump controller), and I've seen him dump on other PI kits as either knock-offs, worse designs, etc. Every time I see a vendor pull that crap, it says a lot more about their own ability to compete and provide customer service than what anyone else is doing. Steered me away from buying fuel-it and VTT products for sure.
Fuel-it seems to be quick to market, but could probably handle competition better. EOS has improved some things (the FI-650 sidepump vs. an aftermarket pump controller), and I've seen him dump on other PI kits as either knock-offs, worse designs, etc. Every time I see a vendor pull that crap, it says a lot more about their own ability to compete and provide customer service than what anyone else is doing. Steered me away from buying fuel-it and VTT products for sure.
Stop racing bucketless designs. Ffs.
If you track the car you need a bucketed solution that keeps all the venturi's you can get, or maybe a surge tank if you're actually legit racing. If you only want volume and want to save a few bucks, like $100 bucksish I don't even know, then go bucketless.
If you track the car you need a bucketed solution that keeps all the venturi's you can get, or maybe a surge tank if you're actually legit racing. If you only want volume and want to save a few bucks, like $100 bucksish I don't even know, then go bucketless.
