Another Atacama Yellow E89 Build Thread (UK)

[wheela]

Shoot, sorry to hear that.

 

[pbondar]

Off to my Indy for TTE500 turbos, VSRF charge pipe and inlets, VTT turbo outlets, Wagner Evo 3 FMIC plus uprated LPFP, uprated GUIBO and prop support…what possibly could go wrong !

 

[Armando1969]

Off to my Indy for TTE500 turbos, VSRF charge pipe and inlets, VTT turbo outlets, Wagner Evo 3 FMIC plus uprated LPFP, uprated GUIBO and prop support…what possibly could go wrong !

Hi Peter,
You are doing a lot at once, hope everything goes well. What is your target, power wise?

 

[wheela]

Exciting day for sure!!! A long time in the making, it should be a great feeling

 

[pbondar]

Hi Peter,
You are doing a lot at once, hope everything goes well. What is your target, power wise?

I don’t have a specific target but…since the main faff is getting the old turbos off I thought I’d spend the money and make sure that there are no ‘obstructions’ on the way in or out…how much difference they will make I‘ll never know as it’s too expensive to just do the turbos and in this case these babies need 2” inlets anyway…

On my dyno where my car at MHD stage 2+ 98 Ron on VSRF downpipes, walnut blast, fresh plugs, coils and stock airbox with fresh paper filter made 400 BHP and 650nm torque (nominally at the crank)..I‘m hoping for 550 and 700+ nm…98 Ron

Frankly at 400 BHP and 650Nm overtaking on full boost is already pretty exciting on bumpy Scottish roads even with a Quaife LSD and lots of chassis tuning..

 

[pbondar]

Exciting day for sure!!! A long time in the making, it should be a great feeling

Yes lots of things got in the way…eye operation, looking after an unknown Ukrainian cousin who turned up in the UK, building my garage, driving my Zed on many road trips etc etc..anyway this summer should see all the main events done…

 

[pbondar]

So if you want to know in detail what spending over £7k on bigger turbos, bigger exhaust system, bigger inlets, outlets, bigger intercooler, better ignition syste and better LPFP gives you then its about 150 BHP more than a stock 35is and 180nm torque..or put it another way £500 gets you the first 60 BHP and the next 90 BHP costs £6k+..you can all now leave..

For those that stayed..

So my tame tuner Richard aka carabuser on certain forums has with me iterated slowly through 6 revisions of tune..we are now at 20.5 PSI boost on 99 RON fuel, running very sweetly.

Took the car to the dyno guys today (Met with Nanu there)..and we did three sets of runs on V4 (As its called) of Richard's tune..with stock airbox and filter, with a Pipercross foam filter and with the airbox lid off..ie fresh air into the inlets..

The dyno results are on the graph shown, and for reference included the old MHD V10 stage 2+ maps with its best figure (lid off).

So its a 500 bhp 700nm torque engine now (there's is a liitle more tweaking to be done, but we are really as far as this is going to go..that is reliably, forever and with absolutely fabulous driving ability..

The price of discovery is usually high..no regrets..but I think tuning wise, subject to fine details we are done..

Enjoy..

 

[pbondar]

Another visit to my geometry chap…this time with Hardrace uprated RTAB and associated rear knuckle bushes from same vendor, had issues with not being able to get rear toe in with my preferred camber..so adjustable chunky new RTA plates with more adjustmen…finally some adjustable ARB links with better quality joints..car not really lowered but concerned about binding with the OE ones.

The front geometry before settings should be partially ignored as the front subframe had been removed to fit the new turbos.

Went with less rear camber to counteract white lining on 275/30 19 rear tyres especially as they wear down.

I’ve done about 500 miles on the new set up and pleased overall.

I don’t do track work and more focussed on high speed stability on bumpy poorly surfaced roads..

The rear seems ‘tight’ it seems to follow the front wheels very closely…previously it felt that the rear was following a different arc at times..

Not sure if I’ve overdone the reduction in rear camber …now 1.4 vs somewhere around 2.2 stock…2.7 was definitely too much camber with bad white lining..

I brought brand new Lemforder knuckle bushes and Meyle HD RTABs with limiters as an option but the guys said the Hardrace stuff was much better..

comments welcome

 

[pbondar]

A couple of graphs that integrates stock figures vs best of V10 MHD vs TTE500 turbos so far..all on 98 RON

 

[pbondar]

A few words and pictures on my version of what is known as the Mr.5 airbox modification for N54 engines as in the 35i/35is.

A bit of history for those not au fait with this matter…Mr.5 was a member of a US based E90 forum who proposed an alternative option for addressing the issue of limited airflow when a N54 engine is tuned.

Many folks went down the route of two dual cone intakes, each one sitting on the end of the disconnected turbo pipe inkers after the stock airbox was removed. The counter arguments to this are the much poorer filtration of the DCIs and the induction noise they create…In addition there were arguments about heat fade caused by sucking in hot air in the engine bay.

Mr.5 suggested retaining the stock airbox and filter but adding an additional air inlet post filters to the interior plenum chamber. Subsequently he and many others came up with various interpretations of this design.

Here’s my version made out of 50mm waste pipe fittings plus a Pipercross Viper aftermarket generic inlet / filter kit.

I’ve done a blended intake on the inside of the plenum chamber, most designs I’ve seen just terminate in a hold in the side of the plenum chamber.

In the end the flexible pipe and lovely aluminium inlet were redundant as there was not enough space to add those..

This is fitted to a RHD 35is..not sure if it would work on a LHD.

Off to the dyno next week to see what impacts it has.

Previous experiments on E89 air boxes showed a small improvement in power and torque ..on a N20..4 BHP in 300…on a N54 6 BHP in 400 and 10 BHP in 500 by removing the airbox lid and / or filter parts..never tried DCIs but the dyno guys rated the impact broadly similar to an unrestricted airbox ..ie no lid ..

One of the great unknowns with all these things is not just how restricted or not certain parts of the system are but how these things interact as a function of rpm and load..an area known as fluid dynamics..for mere mortals the only way is to suck it and see..I’ll report back on the dyno results…

 

[wheela]

Nice!! At some point are you going to attempt extending the position of that second filter forward and down to behind the bumper to minimize under-bonnet heat like a traditional cold air intake, or just see how it performs as is?

 

[pbondar]

Nice!! At some point are you going to attempt extending the position of that second filter forward and down to behind the bumper to minimize under-bonnet heat like a traditional cold air intake, or just see how it performs as is?

The chunky c/f unit holding the foam filter is kind of wedged where it is quite nicely…to move it to buy some more room to get the ducting and nice aluminium inlet would require some head scratching…as was discussed no one really knows which air where is going to get sucked in at heat throttle position and what road speed..in this case the inlet of the c/f unit is already sniffing behind the front headlight where some fresh air / daylight is present…I would imagine at a time where it would be of benefit there will be lots of air whistling around ….it won’t be getting air off the back of the radiators ..as I understand it providing you have a decent enough FMIC then that will negate any minor increase in air inlet temps..kind of nervous to see if it’s a load of crap or does it do something ?

 

[pbondar]

Another day on the dyno..now on a stable v12 tune and a fresh v13+…

So V6 without Mr.5 made a best of 501bhp and 681nm with no filter in the air box…

V13+ with Mr.5 makes 546bhp and 738nm….with 30 of that BHP at least coming from Mr.5 mod..

V6 shown plus V12 vs V13+

Enjoy

 

[wheela]

Wow, unexpected for me, I commented in your other thread.

 

[pbondar]

Wow, unexpected for me, I commented in your other thread.

Yup my dyno guy was perplexed / shocked / pleased..was amazed at the 50mm waste pipe did such a good job…but we cross verified it on version 6 tune over 4 times…

 

[Torgus]

Yup my dyno guy was perplexed / shocked / pleased..was amazed at the 50mm waste pipe did such a good job…but we cross verified it on version 6 tune over 4 times…

I would have bet money and lost.

 

[pbondar]

I would have bet money and lost.

This company do a lot of verification and testing work for aftermarket suppliers including a lot of work on inlets and filters..most companies‘ products fail to meet the marketing hype….however their observation was you never really know until you put it in on the dyno and run it with both the bonnet up and down..the owner who’s studied fluid dynamics stated that there are a complex behavioural issues in terms of resonances, standing waves, interference effects in addition to the relatively simple aspects of static flow rates and dimensions of flow related parts…

He did say that they found DCIs worked consistently well…but I didn’t want to go down that route for previously stated….

 

[wheela]

..the owner who’s studied fluid dynamics stated that there are a complex behavioural issues in terms of resonances, standing waves, interference effects in addition to the relatively simple aspects of static flow rates and dimensions of flow related parts…

This is very true. We didn't study pulsitile flow in my fluid mechanics class back in my mechanical engineering program, but I have a rudimentary/qualitative understanding of resonance from tuning ported subwoofer enclosures. It's easy to default into thinking of the flow in and out of the engine as static flow, but there's a pulsitile element on top of that from the valves opening and closing that often gets overlooked - this makes resonance an important factor. If you've ever run a ported sub wide open with a sign wave at it's tuning frequency, and watched the cone movement - its just unreal the power of that resonance on the system. Absolutely PUMPING bass out that port and the cone is barely moving. A ported subwoofer is relatively easy to model, but an intake on a car???

I guess it's a long way of saying to never under estimate the power of resonance.

 

[pbondar]

This is very true. We didn't study pulsitile flow in my fluid mechanics class back in my mechanical engineering program, but I have a rudimentary/qualitative understanding of resonance from tuning ported subwoofer enclosures. It's easy to default into thinking of the flow in and out of the engine as static flow, but there's a pulsitile element on top of that from the valves opening and closing that often gets overlooked - this makes resonance an important factor. If you've ever run a ported sub wide open with a sign wave at it's tuning frequency, and watched the cone movement - its just unreal the power of that resonance on the system. Absolutely PUMPING bass out that port and the cone is barely moving. A ported subwoofer is relatively easy to model, but an intake on a car???

I guess it's a long way of saying to never under estimate the power of resonance.

We had a similar issue with flutter in aircraft..watching a wing destroy itself through resonance due to ice build up was pretty terrifying..

 

[pbondar]

Here are the graphs that sum how the changes over time have effected the engine..enjoy..all figures are the best they could do so not necessarily what you would use on the street..this shows the MHD tune and first TTE500 in a better than normal light..