N54 is a fantastic platform if you're looking for up to ~650whp, great bang for the buck... After that you run into severely diminishing returns I'm afraid...
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- Thread starter MRE19862
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N54 is a fantastic platform if you're looking for up to ~650whp, great bang for the buck... After that you run into severely diminishing returns I'm afraid...
No one that you know of maybe but I can assure you it can be done. And NO I won't elaborate on who and how. As for reliable at these levels for DD, hell no it's not. I would say around 750 could bee DD reliably if you maintain your car regularly. Maybe more, we'll see. I've been DD mine at 850 for awhile now with no issues so i'll be turning it up soon.
Instead of a vague comment, can you elaborate what the concern is from the photos? Piston/rod choice? Block sleeving?
I spend alot of time and money in product development in the quest for this answer. As a person that has shown to build reliable high powered n54s, I can tell you there's alot that goes into it. I wont go into details for obvious reasons, but I can tell you there are two specific items in the pics that will 100% fail before 1400hp (and mostly likely before 900whp).
As for the other comments above, I disagree with the claim the engine cant make big DD power. If I were to put a number on it Id say 1200-1350hp is a realistic daily driven capability (200-225hp per cylinder). This level can be supported with components that are strong, enduring, and not compromised in normal daily driven conditions.
This is just a powerplant consideration. All the stuff used around it can make or break the ability to achieve those numbers and keep it alive.
I daily 30psi on mmp. 700ish whp. I go through tires and brakes more then anything else. No issues besides a motor replacement every 15,000 miles and fucking boost leaks.
I mean this with the utmost respect but what is stopping you and every other vendor for the last 12 years? Why don't you just take over the n54 market and do something that has never been done? Crack 1kwhp and then after lunch take the record with 1350.
People can't crack 1k and you are already adding on 400whp onto the world record run of ~950whp by motiv's shop car? You are talking about adding roughly 42% more power to the current record like it's nothing.
I am sure 1350whp will be done on an E9x some day. When that day comes, I highly doubt there is an N54 that powers it.
It can be done yes, but it has not been done yet afaik. In before, "Well it has been done but I can't talk about it"
If it was already accomplished, whatever vendor it was would be marketing that as it would bring in sales and customers. Being able to say your product is the only one on the market that can hit 1XXX+whp will bring in $$$. Especially the longer you hold the record and the more you keep pushing the envelope. Why would anyone hide a world record?
I'm not trying to be rude and I know you have spent a shit ton on your car. I can't wait to see the numbers you make. I would hazard to guess you will get the closest to the vendor's #s.
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Why let “ToRgus” continually bait you guys into fruitless debates?
As stated above, the power number was of the powerplant's capability. The limiting factors of this platform is and has been the tuning and supporting components.
We are cooking up a new recipe as we speak.
Props for keeping your cool through all these double ended comments. All while providing professional responses. This is an excellent example of great business practices inside and out.
Most high hp builds are running E85 so no. Actually could benefit from a slight increase in compression for e85 but then pump gas becomes severely limiting.
A record is a record. It just wouldn't be a pump gas record. If Motiv or VTT wanted to get sporty and through a 100 shot on their highest power maps, they could break it.
Fueling isn't the limitation even on full E85... the limitation is stuff breaking and the DME throwing hissy fits for no reason when you get to high power levels.
Race gas certainly makes a lot of things much easier, but records are records, regardless of what's available at the pump.
Thank you. This post isn't directed at anyone in specific (not even the person you replied to), but at our platform/community as a whole.
It's so frustrating to see armchair racers or dynoqueens who follow the path most traveled say shit like "we will never see x" or "the n54 will never run x without y" - No. People said we'd never break 12psi without blowing everything in the engine back in 2010. Whats considered a "stage 1" tune now and what do people regularly run boost-wise now again? Up until as recently as 2013-2014 people were arguing about whether or not we can see HP increases at all, or even past 10whp on a good day by moving from the stock air intake system to something else "because a sealed box provides colder air, and that will always outweigh sucking in hot engine bay air through two pipes" - what do inlets provide over the stock box? Let's not even talk about what people thought about E85 back then.
The main reason people aren't cracking 1000whp regularly is they A: want to do what's already been done and proven over and over because of ease (i.e: 6266 top mount, dyno at 700whp once and call it a day because they "could DD this forever with this Turbo") and B: don't want to spend money on the extra parts needed to get there.
If anyone really thinks Tony's built engine with ported heads, highlift cams etc wouldn't smack 1k out of a Dyno like its nothing if he had a giant single on his car, you're delusional. Things like cams and ported heads have always been part of the equation when pushing that kind of power, doesn't matter if it's an LS1, LSX, 90s 5.0, 2JZ, Coyote or soon to come the N54. This platform is limited in the "supporting" mods area because most N54 owners either came from far inferior platforms that would literally never be able to double their stock Crank HP at the wheels, or old school BMW guys who have never gone the route of ridiculously high HP drag builds because it wasn't feasible on an old M3.
If you've spent any significant amount of time at the drag strip, you'll see lots and lots and lots of people hitting 10s, 9s or even 8s running shitty 30+ year old engines that they
A: got some forged internals (we have some already, and the options for even better internals get more common and cheaper by the day)
B: went FI on (we have that already too)
C: upgraded the head and cam(s) (a handful of people have done the former, few have done the latter still)
D: put the proper drivetrain and suspension parts in place, and bought the right wheels (this is where we have been really, really lacking as a platform). Stroking is really just a cherry on top and not necessary for most people. In fact, lots of people who bore and stroke their engines do it because they want to stay NA.
Is a 1992 IROC a better car than anything the N54 was put in? Fuck no, not from any point of view. Why are there so many that would smoke 95% of you guys all day? Because they invested in the right parts, and the tuning options for the engines they run are all laid out in the open and there's lots of tuners who can make proper use of those parts.
I know some of you guys already know my desire and end goal for my car now that it's paid off and not my DD (run mid to low 10s consistently on twins), and probably half that do know think it'll never happen. While shopping around for tuners, some said I'd have to go single bottom Mount at least, some ignored me entirely (or they just take weeks to respond to emails despite promoting their products on forums daily), and the one I really wanted responded right away - "yes Sean, that goal should be easily achievable on your twins. Like you said power isn't the limiting factor here, it's usually suspension and wheels". That's coming from a tuner who only sells single turbo kits and holds records with them - they could've said "sorry, you'll need one of our kits to do that on this platform" but the reason they knew it was feasible is the same reason they're successful - they've been racing a long time, they've seen other cars do more with less power, they've been with the N54 since inception and they aren't afraid to do things right even if it means doing it different than anyone else.
Before anyone says it: I know running ten's and pushing 1K whp are two totally different things. The point is, you can't just dip your toes in the pool and say the water is too cold for everyone else. Sometimes you need to jump in to tell if it's worth swimming. The N54 will easily hit 1,000 HP at the wheels sooner rather than later. It'll cost the owner some money and more importantly planning, but it will certainly happen and become more common than the maybe 1-2 who've done it already.
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And this is why I specifically asked you a question that I and many others may think I know the answer ,but you are one of the few that really do. My worker had a solid block Camaro that was dead nuts reliable but couldnt idle for more than 15 min. I've followed this platform since the jb2 hot pill days lol but I got my answer I was looking to find out how far things have progressed from someone who knows. Like i said being 900 or 1k capable doesnt mean you drive it daily like that ,imo that's the great thing about turbos , only option for that in past was really nitrous. Also I tend to over build for future goals.
The idle issue on his camaro sounds like the result of camming it - big, lopey cams will reliably produce power and sound awesome but they don't like to be at idle unless the rpms are raised and even then sometimes it's easy for the car to stall out. Kinda goes back to my points about having the right tuning and supporting parts for those power levels too.
Filled water jacket was an extreme nitrous build , was dual stage wet but car couldnt be driven around my point was just cause reliable doesnt mean dd capable that why i was asking Andy's opinion on how far could go before serious compromise.
