what is your goal ?
Trust me, charge pipe injection is OK, but definitely not the best as methanol distribution will not be fair on all cylinders
usually, charge pipe comes with holes to plug methanol nozzle
which meth kit should I buy
- Thread starter seb.apprenti
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what is your goal ?
Trust me, charge pipe injection is OK, but definitely not the best as methanol distribution will not be fair on all cylinders
usually, charge pipe comes with holes to plug methanol nozzle
Go with a big one... 1340ml from prometh or devilsown is a good choice
Our fuel is so restrictive
It’s plenty fine for decent power. The distribution issue is far less of a problem than people make it out to be.
I’ve had both, not on N54, and logs were always similar. Not worth the extra cost or complication for most people.
if you’re going for huge power sure. But the distribution thing is really not a big deal for most.
run a lot of nozzle. The fuel will find the cylinders.
i'm the kind of guy that want to take most of everything...
on chargepipe injection i made 405whp FBO+meth stock turbo on the equivalent of your 91us pump gas
port injection led me to 445whp, there is nothing to add
I may have started by describing my project and my objectives
I must buy a 335i n54 DCT hopefully early next year
the objective would be to reach 600 ++ hp on the wheels
I am thinking of taking 17 t twins, putting the index 12 injectors, intercooler "type evo3" one or two walbro 450 (to be determined) with ekpm3
inlets / outlets and of course the meth kit because here I only have sp95 (eur)
then I have to find someone to make me one or more maps
I must buy a 335i n54 DCT hopefully early next year
the objective would be to reach 600 ++ hp on the wheels
I am thinking of taking 17 t twins, putting the index 12 injectors, intercooler "type evo3" one or two walbro 450 (to be determined) with ekpm3
inlets / outlets and of course the meth kit because here I only have sp95 (eur)
then I have to find someone to make me one or more maps
Same tune? Same dyno? Same day? Same strap down? Same DA? Same correction factor? Same dyno operator? Same meth nozzles? Same amount of flow?
there’s no reason for that gain aside from you’re simply injecting more methanol. in which case it makes perfect sense, the more meth you give the motor the less 91 it burns and it’s going to make more power.
There is more to add since people run 650+ with chargepipe meth without issue
you’re extremely limited situation is unique and definitely the exception, not the rule
edit. To be clear. Yes. Port is better. The talk we are having is how necessary is it at lower power levels. Might you have gains at 500-600? Sure. Is it worth the investment and complication? Most likely not.
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if i aim for 600+, do you think two nozzles in the cp is enough, or should i think about a direct port?
this is good news for the wallet and the installation will be easier.
So we have to take a small nozzle and a large nozzle for progressive injection, or take two nozzles of identical sizes to really inject when it loads and when we need fuel?
maybe you have already explained it to me and I didn t understand ...
You will pick a PSI for it to start injecting. So if you pick 12 PSI once your TMAP see's 12 PSI the meth pump will turn on and you start injecting. You don't want it too low otherwise you inject during daily driving wasting meth.
100% methanol, 20-25% methanol/fuel ratio or 1.5-2cc per BHP. 600whp would be say ~700 BHP so aquamist says you should be running 1050cc - 1400cc of meth. 700 x 1.5 = 1050, 700 x 2.0 = 1400.
Pump output is at 160psi(red line), subtract ~30PSI for your boost so you are at ~130 on the chart:
So you need two 1.0 jets or two 1.2 or one of each. Two 1.2s would be 1250cc. This is assuming 100% meth.
If you are going to run M50/W50 use this math 15-20% MW/fuel ratio or 1-1.5cc per BHP or 1050cc on the high end.
The pump can only supply 1500CC max. So you could add a 3rd nozzle if you wanted to go above 1250cc. Three .9s would be 1350cc on 100% meth.
Does this make sense?
Try reading this: http://xtremeracingtuning.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=415 Ignore the direct port stuff. But it still explains how to calc jet sizing in an easy way.
100% methanol, 20-25% methanol/fuel ratio or 1.5-2cc per BHP. 600whp would be say ~700 BHP so aquamist says you should be running 1050cc - 1400cc of meth. 700 x 1.5 = 1050, 700 x 2.0 = 1400.
Pump output is at 160psi(red line), subtract ~30PSI for your boost so you are at ~130 on the chart:
So you need two 1.0 jets or two 1.2 or one of each. Two 1.2s would be 1250cc. This is assuming 100% meth.
If you are going to run M50/W50 use this math 15-20% MW/fuel ratio or 1-1.5cc per BHP or 1050cc on the high end.
The pump can only supply 1500CC max. So you could add a 3rd nozzle if you wanted to go above 1250cc. Three .9s would be 1350cc on 100% meth.
Does this make sense?
Try reading this: http://xtremeracingtuning.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=415 Ignore the direct port stuff. But it still explains how to calc jet sizing in an easy way.
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thank you for your patience with me ...
it's starting to clear up lol
on average what is the flow rate of the injectors on n54?
since apparently that's what I'm missing
rather than taking a 3rd nozzle, can we choose the water pump upgrade option?
we keep two nozzles, and the possibility of having more flow ... if I understood correctly
for your goals, 2 nozzles with between 650 and 800cc each should be fine
id run straight methanol if possible
id run straight methanol if possible
YES, same dyno, not same day but same conditions, same dyno opérator, obviously different meth nozzles but same flow
slight change on the tune because we didn't had to correct the fact that some cylinders received less methanol, but same boost and same timing
people run 650+ but not on our sh*tty fuel...that's fact, a car or boat that makes 700 in the us will barely 600 here
i'm saying all this because seb.lapprenti is in the same extremely limited situation as i'm
in fact, we have almost the same weather conditions and a fuel with few octanes ...
in any case thanks to the discussions and advice on this forum, my choice on the various performance parts is clarified.
the choice of turbos: ok
the choice of meth kit and nozzles: ok
now I have to know if I should put one or two L P F P
you arent going to be using ethanol, so one fuel pump is fine, your main additional fuel will be the methanol
I hope you won't laugh at me ...
I find that there are good returns on the 17 T
we will say that it is a good value for money ...
I saw a guy holding them at 26 psi then 30 psi without having any problems (for now)
I think that for my project it is sufficient, and it allows me to invest in an aquamist meth kit
I will not be able to put everything in high end
seriously?
so even a 450 is not useful?
I thought I had to put one or two 450 with an EKPM3
if it's useless, I'll leave stock
guys frankly thank you for your advice
I use a single walbro 450 and meth on my 6466.
You will run no ethanol so a single 450 or 535 should be fine. Ethanol needs 30% flow.
The stock fuel pump is not enough, at a minimum you need a walbro 450 and I would keep the bucket.
