VTT / Precision Raceworks Coil install / Results thread

[Notmpwr]

Hey man, you guys are the ones that made the claims, not me. I just noticed how you said that the runs we're the exact same and how the car made so much more power but didn't disclose that it also made more boost and didn't even say that untill you got called out on it. And if they really produced that much faster spooling by the coil change alone, wouldn't you have mentioned that somewhere in the original post?

It would be like me testing some pure turbos vs vtt and then saying the pures blew the vtts out of the water on the same tune and conditions but not disclose the pures were on 5 more psi.

I don't give two santa clauses about how you guys test but when you post data that doesn't make sense you had to know that someone would have questions.

 

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

We used the same tune with the same targets.

The extra boost it ran was a function of the more complete combustion from.... the coils. Very different than your analogy.

You're arguing that at least one part of the mechanism through which it made more power isn't "pure" enough for you to like it. Ok.

Chris

 

[The Convert]

Thanks for the support Tony. We don't block links to other sites here, but I see why the other forums do. It seems we are growing faster every month, they are scared I guess. We haven't had a single, non growth month since we opened the doors here.

Would be awesome if you knew Joe's up addresses. Blocking him specifically would be pure gold!

 

[Notmpwr]

We used the same tune with the same targets.

The extra boost it ran was a function of the more complete combustion from.... the coils. Very different than your analogy.

You're arguing that at least one part of the mechanism through which it made more power isn't "pure" enough for you to like it. Ok.

Chris

Ok, at 1500rpm it made 50 more hp...50. if the coils can't provide a full burn at 1500rpm when they can easily be fully saturated then how the hell can they at 6k rpm where the stock and pr coils made nearly the same power.

I'm not questioning the "more boost" i know it made more boost, I knew as soon as I looked at the graph it made more boost, I'm questioning the why was "it made more boost faster" not anywhere in the discussion until the issue was pressed.

Did you guys log boost via the dynojet?

 

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

It's a big difference for sure. At 1500 rpm, nothing is spooling much yet, so all I'm left with -guessing, mind you- is that a little extra exhaust gas goes a long way towards getting that compressor in the efficiency range. I don't have a good answer for you, and we agree it's a ton of power.

 

[Sshec152]

@Notmpwr https://www.hookedonphonics.com/ since you aren't very good at reading

 

[Notmpwr]

@Notmpwr https://www.hookedonphonics.com/ since you aren't very good at reading

Awesome, thanks man. I'll check that out, good find!

 

[doublespaces]

I'm questioning the why was "it made more boost faster"

Well I guess in this case everyone is equally as interested in the answer to this.

 

[terryd5150]

Ok, at 1500rpm it made 50 more hp...50. if the coils can't provide a full burn at 1500rpm when they can easily be fully saturated then how the hell can they at 6k rpm where the stock and pr coils made nearly the same power.

I'm not questioning the "more boost" i know it made more boost, I knew as soon as I looked at the graph it made more boost, I'm questioning the why was "it made more boost faster" not anywhere in the discussion until the issue was pressed.

Did you guys log boost via the dynojet?

From my perspective, you're asking very valid questions; although, accusing the VTT team of purposefully tampering with their results may be premature.

I would agree that we, as a community, have indeed been force-fed such tactics previously (by various parties); I genuinely don't get that sense here, though

As this isn't a VTT product, I can completely see that they didn't do the "deep-dive" to capture the detailed data that would answer your questions. They simply reported findings.

Candidly, I was surprised that Tony took the time to tell the community about a gain he found that WASN'T made by his team. To me, doing so represents personal growth on his part.

While I believe we should seek the answers to the questions you've asked, I'm not certain beating on the VTT team will get us down that path.

HOWEVER, perhaps we could engage the manufacturer of the product in some back-and-forth Q&A to get the level of clarity needed to address some of the valid points you've made.

 

[foe516]

logs are the only thing that would tell the whole story and it doesn't look like we will see them. nice product and good results, enjoy the zebra cakes.

 

[Notmpwr]

From my perspective, you're asking very valid questions; although, accusing the VTT team of purposefully tampering with their results may be premature.

I would agree that we, as a community, have indeed been force-fed such tactics previously (by various parties), I genuinely don't get that sense here.

As this isn't a VTT product, I can completely see that they didn't do the "deep-dive" to capture the detailed data that would answer your questions. They simply reported findings.

Candidly, I was surprised that Tony took the time to tell the community about a gain he found that WASN'T made by his team. To me, doing so represents personal growth on his part.

While I believe we should seek the answers to the questions you've asked, I'm not certain beating on the VTT team will get us down that path.

HOWEVER, perhaps we could engage the manufacturer of the product in some back-and-forth Q&A to get the level of clarity needed to address some of the valid points you've made.

I admit I may have came off a little strong but when I ask valid questions I'm immediately discredited and continued to to be even though i am still making valid points. I run a business, I have a dyno, ive messed with a vast majority of vehicles. I'm a big fan of upgrades, I love testing data...but I know when testing results have been skewed, intentionally or unintentionally, especially dyno data because I use one on a daily basis.

It just frustrated me when I brought it up and was immediately shot down, Because the information posted in the first post pointed no where else other than the runs were the EXACT same but in reality they were not, I knew immediately and later it was confirmed but it's what ever obviously I don't know what I'm talking about. I just felt like the product may have been misrepresented, unintentionally and didn't want people with less experience to think that they would see gains like this from upgrading coils.

 

[V8bait]

Ya'll cray. But really, dude who said BMW coils are good, is wrong. They are really, really weak. They make up for it with multispark and general engine efficiency giving them a nice situation to function in. Half these gains are because factory coils are THAT bad.

Someone mentioned the IGN-1A coil being one of the ones that may show gains with. Sir, guess what, this is a modified version of that coil in dumb form. Sooo I'll agree with you as I laugh since you accidentally complemented the design, thanks!

The vtt car I expected no gains from, thus was a pleasant surprise. Glad everyone else is enjoying it too!

 

[Notmpwr]

Ya'll cray. But really, dude who said BMW coils are good, is wrong. They are really, really weak. They make up for it with multispark and general engine efficiency giving them a nice situation to function in. Half these gains are because factory coils are THAT bad.

Someone mentioned the IGN-1A coil being one of the ones that may show gains with. Sir, guess what, this is a modified version of that coil in dumb form. Sooo I'll agree with you as I laugh since you accidentally complemented the design, thanks!

The vtt car I expected no gains from, thus was a pleasant surprise. Glad everyone else is enjoying it too!

I never said the coils are not good coils, I never said it would be a good upgrade.

And who said n54 coils were good? That would be tony Vargas himself.

 

[The Convert]

I never said the coils are not good coils, I never said it would be a good upgrade.

And who said n54 coils were good? That would be tony Vargas himself.

You argue like Sticky. Might wanna stick to BB...

 

[Notmpwr]

You argue like Sticky. Might wanna stick to BB...

Note taken. I'll see if I can get a suggestion box.

 

[V8bait]

I never said the coils are not good coils, I never said it would be a good upgrade.

And who said n54 coils were good? That would be tony Vargas himself.

I'll agree to this strictly speaking. But realize Tony isn't a scientist. Coils in a closed environment are negligible for gains, agreed, thus the pleasant surprise. But a car is a dynamic environment. In this instance they provided major gains since the factory system was apparently just limping by. You're argument is absolutely valid except in this case, and I recon many others, the sum of the parts are more important than the individual that you wish to scrutinize so closely. I mean to use an old analogy of big/little picture, a tree is a tree yes, but ultimately the forest is what you should be looking at and it seems by changing a couple trees the entire horizon was improved.

 

[doublespaces]

You argue like Sticky. Might wanna stick to BB...

I give my two cents, and break up vendor fights. That is about it, this site is more of a medium than a place where opinion pieces come from. Its the main reason we have no blog, I prefer being headless in that respect. I do have plans for a blog(Its been on my test server for months), but the articles I have in mind, will be tech articles written by the community. Should be interesting.

 

[dyezak]

I give my two cents, and break up vendor fights. That is about it, this site is more of a medium than a place where opinion pieces come from. Its the main reason we have no blog, I prefer being headless in that respect. I do have plans for a blog(Its been on my test server for months), but the articles I have in mind, will be tech articles written by the community. Should be interesting.

Oh lord, if this thread teaches us anything I've learned that tech articles written by the community are the most controversial even when results are pretty cut and dry.

 

[Tony@VargasTurboTech]

Candidly, I was surprised that Tony took the time to tell the community about a gain he found that WASN'T made by his team. To me, doing so represents personal growth on his part.

Um what? Everything I test I simply post what I find, good bad or otherwise, I did this with intake manifolds, we do not sell intakes manifolds, I did this with Cams, we do not sell cams, I've done this with LPFP's we do not sell LPFP's.

If I put something on our car its because I think its going to help, I do not throw products at it for fun.

For the guy who just wants to argue "notverysmart" or whatever his screename is. For these results they could not be more simple. I removed the stock coils, installed the PR coils, and reran the car with no other changes. The car picked up a bunch of midrange, honestly I do not care why. We do not manufacture coils, I do not care about the science behind why to be honest. I care about the results, this product showed results, I will keep them on the car. I said it earlier, and I will say it again, you do not like the results, go away, do not buy the coils, do not engage with the results thread, its a simple concept.

 

[Tony@VargasTurboTech]

As for people asking for logs, they have actually been on our datazap public since I posted this. We always post logs, people who do not post logs are trying to hide things. Obviously the 06/30/17 log is the stock coils, 07/01/17 is the next day. I went down to the shop installed the coils, then I got one run in, it misfired, and it blew a hose up top. I compared the graphs, and honestly thought something was off. I texted Chris, and Justin the results I saw with the admission, unless I could quantify it with back to back runs I did not believe it. Since it was a holiday weekend I did not feel like going to the shop on Sunday, I went to watch my friends Auto-X instead. I went back to the shop on Monday 07/03/17, I took the car off the dyno, put it on the lift, fixed the issue, and drove it back onto the dyno. I did not change anything. That is when I ran multiple times, fighting some misfires at .024 gap, I then regapped down to .022, and got all the clean pulls. Which I posted.

So basically

Disclaimer: If these log links are posted on BB, I will make them Private, so if you want to ruin it for everyone who wants to look at them, go ahead, and copy, and paste these on the other forum

Stock coils graph best results on our 180 map done on 06/30/17: http://www.datazap.me/u/vargasturbotech/vtt-coil-comparison-log?log=0&data=3-23&zoom=20-78
PR Coils very first run after install, misfire mid run, and hose blew up top 07/01/17: http://www.datazap.me/u/vargasturbotech/vtt-coil-comparison-log?log=1&data=3-23&zoom=25-78
PR Coils best run on 07/03 after fixing issue with car 07/03/17: http://www.datazap.me/u/vargasturbotech/vtt-coil-comparison-log?log=2&data=3-23&zoom=21-80

Graph of the 3 runs: