Cus bewst, it's not a huge deal I can just run off the WG hah
Yea I sold the jb4 a while back, I'll look into those other controllers but I'd prefer not to drop money on that then turn around and get your ebcs or the boostbox
Twisted Tuning Boost Control Solenoid - N54
- Thread starter Twisted Tuning
- Start date
Cus bewst, it's not a huge deal I can just run off the WG hah
Yea I sold the jb4 a while back, I'll look into those other controllers but I'd prefer not to drop money on that then turn around and get your ebcs or the boostbox
Looks like it's about to be twisted, he's pretty much been my main consideration so far
Hey so when just running WG do we bother hooking the mac up to our stock solenoid wires? Or leave it alone?
don't even bother with the mac at that point if you're just running off spring pressure. run a boost ref line from turbo comp housing to the wastegate port. thats it for the most part.
Twisted.. is there going to be a notable difference in boost control with the gfb gforce vs your solenoid or the boostbox? I want to assume so, because why bother making either if an external controller was fine but idk these things? I understand the dme will control boost, but if the dme and gfb see the same thing why does it matter? Or is the issue exactly the opposite of that..
the goal here is to have the DME that the car came with control everything possible. The DME itself has better boost control (when its understood how to control it) than any other method whether it be the JB4 or an external controller like the GFB unit. Bottom line is the GFB will not operate as fast as the DME can, as i think they still use the MAC type solenoid. Does the GFB work? yes, absolutely. But its not the best way.
The Boost box uses the DME to control boost, so that is far better than the GFB external controller. but still utilizes a MAC solenoid. Myself and @jyamona were just speaking about that very thing discussing if having the faster solenoid would be any benefit over using the Boostbox with the slower MAC solenoid.
Short answer is, we aren't sure at this current time. but its something i'm sure we will test. Either way, the Boost box and my solenoid solution will be two great things this platform needs. and owners are able to pick and choose whichever one fits their build the best.
That's depressing.. What is the problem? I remember trying to help you dial in your setup which is fairly unique but don't remember where it ended up.
Solenoid speed is something I've spent a lot of time on as its fundamental to boost control. With the JB4 we have a usable range of 20hz to 2000hz and the same setting also determines the integration speed of the PID loop to maintain a 1:1 ratio with the solenoid speed. You don't want to make PID changes in between solenoid cycles.
Basically what I found was with the twin turbos faster solenoid speed was slightly better. As a result we run the OEM solenoid at 2000hz with the JB4. It's a really high quality solenoid and takes to the higher speed just fine with full usable duty range. You can run the OEM solenoid at 20hz too if you want but it gets loud lol. With single turbo stuff though you've got a lot more pneumatic slop and the solenoid isn't really doing as much. It was hard to notice a difference in control between 10hz, 20hz, 33hz with the MAC and even 400hz with an alternative single turbo solenoid I tested. So as long as your control loop is 1:1 with the solenoid speed I think you'll be fine.
Given the choice of running a 33hz with a converter and 200hz with some other solenoid (where the DME is hard timed at 200hz) I think the latter will be a better control choice. The PID speed has to match the solenoid speed to work properly.
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Thanks for that. What i have found is that a lot of the solenoids that manufacturers claim to be higher HZ rated solenoid (advertised as such) really aren't and some weren't even 70hz capable, lol. I've tested several "advertised high operating frequency" solenoid here. and they weren't even close. Im sure you've run into that as well in your testing.
Either way, if this works out it will just be another solution to make life easier on the tuning side of things as well as reliability and hopefully far less failure rates for solenoid parts.
Your test was flawed, as the usable duty cycle of a 3-port MAC valve varies greatly when used at 10Hz vs. 33Hz. Also, the DME is not set to 200Hz. The PID integration rate is adjustable.
being as you have that DME info, is that adjustable integration a table change or does it do it automatically? just for future knowledge
When setting up a solenoid and frequency you must define the usable dutycycle range. IIRC the MAC 3port is as follows:
10hz 7-90%
15hz 10-89%
20hz 15-86%
31hz 20-80%
....etc
If true it's good to hear the PID evaluation frequency (not the integration constants/"rate") is adjustable as that is a critical part of changing the solenoid speed.
Not depressing! My car has gone very fast and so far has never had a fault ecu related. The JB4 has work brilliantly for me so far.
I'm just curious to see what it would feel like flash only as people are claiming it is better.
I also have a pesky boost control issue (which I don't believe is JB4 related but only 1 way to find out) Car refuses to run more than 30psi. No matter what I do.
I would never bash the JB4 and bang for buck it's still the best mod on these cars hands down, and I like how even after 25k+ miles no smoking. ^_^
OK no problem. Always fun to try new things. On the boost not going over 30psi wasn't that a manifold flow thing? I guess we'll find out!
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