Ti Automotive (Walbro) 274 vs 285 vs 295

[PFS]

I'm not sure hydramat is the key to victory. Have had more than one customer come to me with complaints of bucketless systems & hydramat still running out of fuel on track/twisties. No complaints once going back to a bucket. It definitely works well, but I remain a bit skeptical at the extreme.

 

[Panzerfaust]

Pair it with this hydramat and a bucket less pump and buckets are a thing of the past

If they make one long enough to span both L & R tank its good bye to the crapy restrictive Left Hand side fuel tank hat.

I really don't see any downsides to the bucket, unless you're on a super budget build. In which case the person likely wouldnt want to run e85/ethanol mixes, race gas, or supplemental high pressure fueling because all of those are added expenses that in most cases add up quick (maybe with the exception of running a Helix and pump gas only). Other than that, I see the bucket as a large advantage in most cases - whether it be a street car so you can go lower than 1/2 tank comfortably, run on a road course without any worry of fuel starvation regardless of fuel level, or even drag racing where you can stay at either 1/4 or 1/8 tank to reduce weight - not to mention you can stuff two or three pumps in a bucket nowadays, or do like me and run your secondary LPFP outside of the bucket for the best of both worlds.

The driver side hat I agree on though - that thing is a PITA and even though I have plenty of fuel with my Helix Fury, I still want to either finish customizing my spare or go with a drop in replacement like EoS sells.

I'm also curious if doing something like "drilling out" or installing a larger, higher flowing venturing on either side would be worthwhile but I've already modified my current spare drivers hat passed the point I could do that, and I'm all set on my pump side.

Hydramat is not cheap. Also I hear they can get clogged up. I'm willing to bet the car will start without the check valve.

Yeah, I only briefly looked into a hydramat but they looked both expensive and sound like a PITA to install in a stock fuel tank. I definitely think they're geared more towards people running an external fuel cell where it's easier to access and you typically abandon the entire stock fuel system.

 

[martymil]

You would be surprised what people are trying to run on a budget, some seem to think they can run 6 to 700hp on a stage 2 on full e85 with stock fuel lines with just upgraded turbos.

If they had an 11x11 inch hydra mat to suit our pumps I would guarantee it would not run out of fuel on the most extreme corners on slicks, the problem is the only size available right now is 3x15 from what I seen.

 

[PFS]

There are a million different sizes out there. Ok, maybe not a million, but there are a bunch and they are pricey. I'm sure you could beat Holley's website prices, but the top end is still looking pretty high.

HydraMats

www.holley.com

 

[martymil]

Not for our pumps, there is only 1

 

[PFS]

That's not difficult to adapt.

 

[martymil]

haven't seen a fitting to make the conversion yet, I'll be the first to try it.

 

[PFS]

You'd probably have to do some custom work to best suit our purposes, but this is a good start: https://www.z1motorsports.com/fuel-system/walbro/walbro-universal-fuel-pump-fitting-p-10326.html

 

[martymil]

Thanks for finding that will try it.

 

[martymil]

Custom work is not an issue, I do a lot of that.

 

[PFS]

No prob, I have spent a lot of time sourcing random parts. It keeps coming back to practicality for me though, vs. end all/be all in fuel systems.

Radium, who makes great products, has a few things kicking around on random pages but I don't immediately see on their site. Such as this one:

Radium: Fuel Pump Inlet Adapter

The fuel pump inlet adapter kit is split into two parts; the fuel pump inlet adapter and the fuel tank pickup. The materials in these products are compliant and safe to be used in all gas types includ

www.rosssport.com

 

[martymil]

I placed an order for two fittings and a 11x11 mat, see how things go.

 

[martymil]

I love simplicity, this will make fuel pump changes uncomplicated.

Put a T piece on the bottom of the pump and run two hydramats, one in each side of the tank.

Get rid of the venturi system and restrictive LHD drivers side hat and flow is no longer restricted.

 

[The Convert]

I love simplicity, this will make fuel pump changes uncomplicated.

Put a T piece on the bottom of the pump and run two hydramats, one in each side of the tank.

Get rid of the venturi system and restrictive LHD drivers side hat and flow is no longer restricted.

Will you still have a ballast system to keep both sides of the tank even?

 

[martymil]

Pretty sure the bmw venturi system doesnt work like that, all it does is scavange fuel from one side of the tank to the other and when you go around the corner any fuel entering the left tank from cornering get scavenged right back into the right tank again.

The opening between the tanks keeps the fuel balanced between the two tanks.

I'm only going to be testing the 11x11 hydramat on the right tank and see how it copes at very low fuel levels for now.

If you really want you could use a radium venturi connected to a small hydramat in the left tank to scavenge all fuel to the right tank.

With the venturi return pipe running directly onto the right tank hydramat and keeping it submerged in fuel at all times.

This would allow the best fuel scavenging possible and to be able to use 100% of the fuel out of the tank and when racing be able to keep minimal fuel/weight whilst not running out of fuel pressure especially in drag racing events where every lbs helps.

Here is the radium venturi system in action.

Nice simple uncomplicated fuel system with unrestricted flow at all times.

Venturi Jet Pump Kit

Venturi Jet Pump Kit for Saddle Bag Fuel Tanks

www.radiumauto.com

 

[doublespaces]

TIA295 - Here is the description page for it:

F90000295 In Tank Fuel Pump

aftermarket.tiautomotive.com

Fuel: GAS & E85
Horsepower: 900+ at 60PSI, naturally aspirated applications
Over All Pump Length: 131mm
Main Housing Diameter: 39mm
Lower Housing Diameter: 50mm
Fuel Inlet Diameter: 11mm OD
Fuel Outlet Diameter: 11mm OD
Flow Rate: 535LPH at 40psi
Test Voltage: 13.5 Volts

Note: Pump does NOT have a check valve

 

[martymil]

It really looks like the pump of choice if it doesn't cause issues

 

[doublespaces]

TIA285 - Walbro '525': https://aftermarket.tiautomotive.com/projects/f90000285-in-tank-fuel-pump/

Fuel: GAS & E85
Horsepower: 900+ at 60PSI, naturally aspirated applications
Over All Pump Length: 131mm
Main Housing Diameter: 39mm
Lower Housing Diameter: 50mm
Fuel Inlet Diameter: 11mm OD
Fuel Outlet Diameter: 11mm OD
Flow Rate: 470lph @ 40psi (120+ gph)
Test Voltage: 13.5 Volts

 

[doublespaces]

TIA274 - Walbro 450: https://aftermarket.tiautomotive.com/projects/f90000274-in-tank-fuel-pump/

Fuel: FLEX

Horsepower: 750

Flow Rate (lph): 450

Flow Rate (gph): 119

Pressure (psi): 50

Pressure (kPa): 345

Max System Pressure (psi): 112

Max System Pressure (kPa): 772

Filter Group: B

Inlet Diameter: 14mm

Inlet Configuration: 0 degree outlet fitting to inlet orientation

F90000274 = F90000267 with higher pressure relief. E85 compatible. Will support 750+ hp

 

[doublespaces]

Per TIA:

TIA295@ 72 PSI is 121 GPH, 460 LPH

TIA285@72 PSI is 107 GPH, 405 LPH

TIA275@ 72 PSI is about 80 GPH, 305 LPH

People should stop calling them the Walbro 450, Walbro 525 etc. The 450 is an LPH rating at 50 PSI, the 525 is maximum flow of the pump in ideal situations (0 psi). In the end, the only thing that matters is their flow capacity at the pressure we use them.

Radium's results are quite a bit different:

TIA295: 415 LPH
TIA285: 355 LPH
TIA274: 310 LPH

They state pumps were tested at 13.5v for the sound tests but don't mention specifically for the flow testing. I also find it interesting the 295 actually requires less amps than the 274 but massively outflows it.