PR coils are on

[matreyia]

That's so odd. I've never had a misfire on BL running stock N20 plugs with the .03 gap they came with. Are you ST?

Stock turbos. I think that they start to misfire at .030 after a week or so if you don't do the coil modification to seat deeper into the plug. For a week the car ran fantastic...then suddenly, misfire. So I tried the coil modifications and immediately got misfires, then I tried another modification and now am awaiting the upgraded harness to arrive Saturday to test out.

Perhaps I will give the .030 another try after the upgraded harness. As for the .030 gap on NGK... be advised that they actually do not come .030 from the dealer, you have to gap them to be absolutely sure you have the desired gap.

 

[Kommodore]

I was running unmodified BL coils and unmodified plugs and never had a problem. Apart from of course when a connector came loose it started misfiring. Once they were secured though they never misfired again until the connectors disintegrated. I should be getting my repaired harness today and am going to run it for a bit with the unmodified coils again to make sure it functions like it did before, then I will do the coil modifications.

Edit: I want to mention that I ran a variety of maps from e40-e60, stock, Stage 2 and 2+.

 

[N54QC]

Generally speaking, .026 is the suggested gap for BL coils. Haven't had a problem with mine at all to date. That would probably change though if I mess with them at all given the issues people have experienced lately...

 

[ShocknAwe]

Gonna try .025 on my PR coils with 95770 NGKs I think. We'll see how it does.

 

[Narcosis]

Stock turbos. I think that they start to misfire at .030 after a week or so if you don't do the coil modification to seat deeper into the plug. For a week the car ran fantastic...then suddenly, misfire. So I tried the coil modifications and immediately got misfires, then I tried another modification and now am awaiting the upgraded harness to arrive Saturday to test out.

Perhaps I will give the .030 another try after the upgraded harness. As for the .030 gap on NGK... be advised that they actually do not come .030 from the dealer, you have to gap them to be absolutely sure you have the desired gap.

This was my experience, which was surprising and somewhat disappointing. I was pleased to be running the .031 gap, a couple days after I created this thread the car began to act up. I've since gapped them down to .025 and the car is happy once again.

 

[matreyia]

This was my experience, which was surprising and somewhat disappointing. I was pleased to be running the .031 gap, a couple days after I created this thread the car began to act up. I've since gapped them down to .025 and the car is happy once again.

OK... I did the coil modifications, reinstalled the .030 plugs, started up the car and it sounded louder, started up quicker than normal. Driving around since Saturday...couple of days so far, different ambient and humidity... very strong pulls, smooth engine sound. I have a pack of .026 plugs and tools to change in the trunk just in case the misfires return. I will update if they do return, when they return.

VT

 

[Narcosis]

Here are a couple of logs I took yesterday with the .025 gap and the latest E85 map from Ken/Wedge.

https://datazap.me/u/narcosis/080518-e85-map-7-log-1?log=0&data=3-5-14-15-16-22-29

https://datazap.me/u/narcosis/080518-e85-map-7-log-2?log=0&data=3-5-14-15-16-22-29

 

[Narcosis]

Another update, the car experienced more stumbling under boost so I ended up resetting the gap on the new plugs down to .020. Again I'm surprised and slightly disappointed with the PR coils, it was my thought that they would be presenting MUCH more energy to the plugs & allow me to run a wide gap. What makes me go "hmm..." is the fact that when first installed I ran .031 with no problem, the car kicked ass for a few days. Out of the blue it began to stumble, gapped to .025 and it was ok for a few days, then stumbling again. Down to .020 yesterday with my fingers crossed.

When I had the plugs out, it looks like I may have seated the plug boots a bit to aggressively - agree? Perhaps this contributed to missing under boost?

Log from yesterday after resetting the gap: https://datazap.me/u/narcosis/081018-e85-map-7-log-3?log=0&data=3-14-15-16-22-29-31

 

[DCook]

Did you use dielectric grease? I have mine gapped at .024 and 18lbs was no issue on 95770s.

 

[Narcosis]

Nope, I've considered but not tried it yet.

 

[DCook]

Nope, I've considered but not tried it yet.

Pickup a new set of plugs, and try it. Looks like it could be arcing to the plug base as its shorter vs the electrode tip. Ive seen it happen before.

 

[Jeffman]

Definitely use dielectric grease on the coil boot. Those Browns spots are arcing.

 

[matreyia]

Nope, I've considered but not tried it yet.

Wait, you installed plugs on a Precision Raceworks Coil kit without Dialectric grease? WTF dude? Put those plugs right back in and make sure apply grease onto the white ceramic part only. Also make sure the coil receptacle tips are wiped clean of any film and the male metal plug tip is also wiped clean of any film.

Dielectric grease is recommend on stock plugs let alone upgraded coils and plugs.

This is the nth time I have seen a post on misfires and it was all due to not using grease. There is a guy with upgraded turbos on 135 on YT and here too that did that...then one day he used the grease and it completely stopped misfiring.

From now on, do everything that is recommended in maintenance routines. No matter how insignificant it might be. Don't skip out on new gaskets, grease, pre-lubing...etc. You are just asking for this kind of running in circles because people assume you actually did recommended procedures and they are trying to help you look for a nonexistent cause because the initial install procedure was missing a basic step.

As much as I hate doing it, I always, every single time apply the grease to prevent arcing.

 

[matreyia]

Another update, the car experienced more stumbling under boost so I ended up resetting the gap on the new plugs down to .020. Again I'm surprised and slightly disappointed with the PR coils, it was my thought that they would be presenting MUCH more energy to the plugs & allow me to run a wide gap. What makes me go "hmm..." is the fact that when first installed I ran .031 with no problem, the car kicked ass for a few days. Out of the blue it began to stumble, gapped to .025 and it was ok for a few days, then stumbling again. Down to .020 yesterday with my fingers crossed.

When I had the plugs out, it looks like I may have seated the plug boots a bit to aggressively - agree? Perhaps this contributed to missing under boost?

Log from yesterday after resetting the gap: https://datazap.me/u/narcosis/081018-e85-map-7-log-3?log=0&data=3-14-15-16-22-29-31


View attachment 14699

God almighty...just looked at those plugs. YES, it is because you did not use the grease. And now who knows what the innards of the plugs look like from the arcs. You should be on the safe side, and install brand new plugs WITH grease. I guarantee you won't have misfire.

I am at .030 on e85 63% with zero issues, smooth as a baby's butt, instant throttle response. It's the lack of grease. Also, unlikely but possible, your coil tubes may be damaged from the arcing pathways...unlikely but if you apply grease and it still misfires... you may have to replace those coils again. The energy pathway sometimes fucks up coils and you can't see the damage internally.

 

[Sshec152]

Another update, the car experienced more stumbling under boost so I ended up resetting the gap on the new plugs down to .020. Again I'm surprised and slightly disappointed with the PR coils, it was my thought that they would be presenting MUCH more energy to the plugs & allow me to run a wide gap. What makes me go "hmm..." is the fact that when first installed I ran .031 with no problem, the car kicked ass for a few days. Out of the blue it began to stumble, gapped to .025 and it was ok for a few days, then stumbling again. Down to .020 yesterday with my fingers crossed.

When I had the plugs out, it looks like I may have seated the plug boots a bit to aggressively - agree? Perhaps this contributed to missing under boost?

Log from yesterday after resetting the gap: https://datazap.me/u/narcosis/081018-e85-map-7-log-3?log=0&data=3-14-15-16-22-29-31


View attachment 14699

Those plugs are toast, make sure you use dielectric grease. You may even end up having to replace the boots

 

[ShocknAwe]

Went to install the PR coils with my new NGKs yesterday, couldnt get the boots to click on when in the car despite grease and plenty of force. Almost like the boots were too big for the wells.

 

[Narcosis]

God almighty...just looked at those plugs. YES, it is because you did not use the grease. And now who knows what the innards of the plugs look like from the arcs. You should be on the safe side, and install brand new plugs WITH grease. I guarantee you won't have misfire.

I am at .030 on e85 63% with zero issues, smooth as a baby's butt, instant throttle response. It's the lack of grease. Also, unlikely but possible, your coil tubes may be damaged from the arcing pathways...unlikely but if you apply grease and it still misfires... you may have to replace those coils again. The energy pathway sometimes fucks up coils and you can't see the damage internally.

Thanks man, I'm on it. And I admit if the new plugs & grease resolves the issue, I've got egg on my face - I've been doing this forced induction mod stuff since 1993...

 

[fmorelli]

I've got egg on my face

You're kidding, right? Do you know how much clusterfvck has been going on with ignitions on this platform? Join the club, man! You are in good company!

Filippo

 

[Narcosis]

You're kidding, right? Do you know how much clusterfvck has been going on with ignitions on this platform? Join the club, man! You are in good company!

Filippo

Oh hell no. man - dead serious. I'm pretty methodical about how I do most everything, and in my career I'm a technologist. All about details. Something as simple as using tune-up grease and I just didn't do it...

And then this when I'm installing a used set of plugs with grease:

 

[Jeffman]

Damn connector fell apart in the boot!?$&%#