!!!!THISSSS LOL, it doesn't take long to datalog some AITs with and without the spacer in there, there should be a drop in temps if it works. With meth and e85 who needs this?
Phenolic Spacer for N5x/S55
- Thread starter EOSpeed
- Start date
IATs won't show you a thing. To measure the effectiveness of the spacer on air temps you would have to measure them after they leave the manifold. I.e in the head. The only way to truly get temp data would be to bench test.
This. IAT is measured by the TMAP, which is in the charge pipe. The only thing you can really look at here is how much heat passes through the throttle body into the chargepipe, or radiating throughout the enginebay. But in all honesty, I wouldn't be worried about that. I'd be worried if had a top mount and no hood scoops. I've seen a few logs of top mounts vs bottom, and those of you with top mounts are frying your engine bay and that is having more of a concerning impact on measurable IAT than a metal intake manifold. I hate hood scoops, but even I am considering a new hood which has them.
I don't know why everyone is always so butt hurt about the numbers game. If anyone actually read the first post, you would see that we said we will be doing some quantifiable data. For just a standard test looking at IAT readings we have seen a noticeable drop almost 20 deg at stop lights. So does it work yes, is it the holy grail of products to solve all your IAT issues NO it is not. Will it help keep your gaskets from melting on cheaper manifold designs not using OE gaskets, YES it will.
I am game to give out a FREE spacer to anyone who wants to go out and do the measurements on their own and report back. Because honestly, no matter what we post about our findings, people are always going to say we cheated the test somehow or made up numbers to sell product. We are not about that. That was never or will ever be our business motto.
I am game to give out a FREE spacer to anyone who wants to go out and do the measurements on their own and report back. Because honestly, no matter what we post about our findings, people are always going to say we cheated the test somehow or made up numbers to sell product. We are not about that. That was never or will ever be our business motto.
The current trend seems to be replacing plastic parts with metal in a cramped and very high operating temp engine. Vendor comes out with a cheap way to help offset that and we demand data!
Pretty sure the heat soak issue was documented in the intake testing Vargas did but I could be mistaken.
I'd be willing to bet that the margin on this type of product for a vendor would make some of these posts laughable.
Pretty sure the heat soak issue was documented in the intake testing Vargas did but I could be mistaken.
I'd be willing to bet that the margin on this type of product for a vendor would make some of these posts laughable.
Just classic
You want data? Here's a spacer, get it yourself. Well played.
Can you please provide specific data points for this air "filter" and provide the microparticle performance rating? Did you think I was dumb enough to part with my lunch money that easily?
haha That was not my intention. We are still doing data, but there are a lot of variables to consider when trying to get good data. I was just saying even after we post our data there will still be skeptics, there always is!
Please spend time developing more products and don't pander to bullshit requests for data on a $100 spacer. I can almost guarantee the guys asking don't have aluminum manifolds and please do not judge the platform as whole based on a few individuals. Thanks.
So we ask for data, and you tell me your logged IAT values dropped 20 degrees?
Right after we discussed how the logged IAT values are not affected by this as it measures even before the throttle body?
You're right, I don't have an aluminum intake manifold. What I have is an engineering degree, and an excellent understanding of thermal dynamics. I don't have a reason to test this. The builder does. He's trying to find bullshit reasons not to do the work, and so far he's got retards like you believing it.
Right after we discussed how the logged IAT values are not affected by this as it measures even before the throttle body?
You're right, I don't have an aluminum intake manifold. What I have is an engineering degree, and an excellent understanding of thermal dynamics. I don't have a reason to test this. The builder does. He's trying to find bullshit reasons not to do the work, and so far he's got retards like you believing it.
Folks, its a phenolic spacer. It isolates the manifold, throttle body and charge pipe from some of the heat off the engine head. If you buy a metal manifold, get one of these. It doesn't take logs, proof or an engineering degree to understand that it can insulate from heat. If you're worried about $100, then don't get one, we shouldn't make it any more complicated than this.
so is this really needed with meth or e85? Or should I say will it be effective enough to warrant the purchase if using either of those, meth or e85?
Actually, we should, because it's $100 that doesn't do anything, and we have the responsibility to protect our members from scams.
First, it does not isolate the intake from heat. In fact, by the exhaust same theory that the spacer works is why the intake still gets just as hot.
Second, if it does work, prove it. Because you have a huge volume of air moving rapidly through the manifold, it doesn't have much time to pick up heat from a limited surface area.
First, it does not isolate the intake from heat. In fact, by the exhaust same theory that the spacer works is why the intake still gets just as hot.
Second, if it does work, prove it. Because you have a huge volume of air moving rapidly through the manifold, it doesn't have much time to pick up heat from a limited surface area.
Are you seriously that dense? Just delete your intercooler, air flows so fast through it that it doesn't make a difference anyways. It's literally a simple product, go look up a phenolic spacer on any other platform. The n54 is no different.
It will still make a small difference. Air coming into contact with ANY object that is hotter than it will transmit heat into the air. Obviously, the faster the air moves, the less time it has to transfer that heat. So, will the spacer make a HUGE difference? No. Will it make a difference though? Yes.
Way back in the day, I was interested in majoring in the minors. I did a little science experiment. Bear with me.
On my stock turbo/tame tune, I noticed that as I rolled into the throttle (we're talking cobb v2 days), if I watched charge temps, they would DECREASE for a bit before increasing.
Due to being brilliant... wait, no, this isn't my moment of glory. After much thought and 6 of my brain cells fighting with the other 6 over who gets the next chicken mcnugget, I realized that the air was picking up heat from the piping between the cold side of the FMIC, and my temp sensor. Only when the velocity of the air (getting into the throttle) was significant enough to reduce the exposure time enough, whatever that meant, I'd see that quick dip in temp before the whole shebang was overrun by little turbos, a poor quality intercooler, and Arizona temperatures.
So my experiment was to thermally wrap the entire cold side charge pipe with heat tape. It made a difference in charge temps of about.... 2 degrees. It also made the piping stay hot quite a lot longer once it did heat soak. Take what you want from that. It's not a lot of piping and it's not nearly as hot as a metal manifold on the engine.
This is just breaking up some very good heat transfer from the head to a nice quality manifold. Never a bad idea. If you piecemeal a system and every or nearly every chance you get, you do little things like this, in the end you'll end up ahead. It's just solid practice. How much ahead? Who knows. It's not necessary, but none of this stuff is. Some guys love doing all the little detail oriented things. I get that. And FWIW, I felt one of these metal manifolds after a 1/2 mile run and she seemed like she could use a phenolic spacer. Hot hot hot. I have no dog in this fight, but it's hard to argue it's a bad idea.
Chris
On my stock turbo/tame tune, I noticed that as I rolled into the throttle (we're talking cobb v2 days), if I watched charge temps, they would DECREASE for a bit before increasing.
Due to being brilliant... wait, no, this isn't my moment of glory. After much thought and 6 of my brain cells fighting with the other 6 over who gets the next chicken mcnugget, I realized that the air was picking up heat from the piping between the cold side of the FMIC, and my temp sensor. Only when the velocity of the air (getting into the throttle) was significant enough to reduce the exposure time enough, whatever that meant, I'd see that quick dip in temp before the whole shebang was overrun by little turbos, a poor quality intercooler, and Arizona temperatures.
So my experiment was to thermally wrap the entire cold side charge pipe with heat tape. It made a difference in charge temps of about.... 2 degrees. It also made the piping stay hot quite a lot longer once it did heat soak. Take what you want from that. It's not a lot of piping and it's not nearly as hot as a metal manifold on the engine.
This is just breaking up some very good heat transfer from the head to a nice quality manifold. Never a bad idea. If you piecemeal a system and every or nearly every chance you get, you do little things like this, in the end you'll end up ahead. It's just solid practice. How much ahead? Who knows. It's not necessary, but none of this stuff is. Some guys love doing all the little detail oriented things. I get that. And FWIW, I felt one of these metal manifolds after a 1/2 mile run and she seemed like she could use a phenolic spacer. Hot hot hot. I have no dog in this fight, but it's hard to argue it's a bad idea.
Chris
Maybe not so much with meth, but
I tried to hypothesize this same 'phenomenon'. Say, crusing at 60mph, spool the turbo while not accelerating much, the IATs dropped. Cruising at a higher speed, didn't drop the IATs the same way. My initial thought, was that the compressor was acting like a fan and cooling itself to a degree and potentially even all the piping after it. My hot side pipe is nothing more than a silicone elbow, so the FMIC itself and the cold side pipes are the only other things that could be getting a cooling effect, other than the compressor itself.
If someone really wanted to get dirty with some tests, maybe a throttle body spacer could be thrown in to eliminate variables.
I tried to hypothesize this same 'phenomenon'. Say, crusing at 60mph, spool the turbo while not accelerating much, the IATs dropped. Cruising at a higher speed, didn't drop the IATs the same way. My initial thought, was that the compressor was acting like a fan and cooling itself to a degree and potentially even all the piping after it. My hot side pipe is nothing more than a silicone elbow, so the FMIC itself and the cold side pipes are the only other things that could be getting a cooling effect, other than the compressor itself.
If someone really wanted to get dirty with some tests, maybe a throttle body spacer could be thrown in to eliminate variables.
They made phenolic mani and tb spacers for hondas years ago. Every ounce of isolation helps.
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