Passive/Active Cooling for Hotside Inlets

langsbr

langsbr

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I think everyone is missing Torgus' point. There is no dispute that cooler entry air is better, but that any contraption designed would have the funds better spent on a better intercooler or meth.

I think it's coming down to if it's effective for the expected return and its opportunity cost, in both financial and engine bay looks.
 
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The Convert

The Convert

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Looks and cost are being looked at like it has to be some cobbled together garage build, but somehow will cost an arm and a leg. If someone like AFE made it, it would be a one time cost of like $3-400, unlike the recurring cost of methanol.
 
Torgus

Torgus

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The Convert said:
Cooler air is more dense. Denser air has more stored energy. The more air you can feed into the system, the more power you can extract from it. Therefore, the cooler the air coming into the system, the more power you can produce.

This means that if you handicap yourself in the very beginning by sucking in hot air, and then cooling it with meth, you are hurting throttle response if you are making up for the initial loss of power. If you're not hurting throttle response, then you're losing power. Point being, you're losing something by being less efficient.
Click to expand...

I agree 100%. It is definitely better to suck in cooler vs. warmer air. No one is going to disagree with that. Water is still wet. In the real world though how much does that matter in this instance? You are talking theory/science vs. what does it matter in the real world.

A few accurate thermocouples logging at 30, 60, and 90 mph will tell us all a lot about the air the hot site intakes are taking in vs stock location.

Again, the whole reason I made my 1st post, which I was called out for trolling, was talking about in the real world where do you want to spend your time and money. Are there real world gains to be had from this? I have yet to see any data that shows stock location inlets perform better than hotside because of the air they ingest. If anything hotside have less of a pressure delta between them vs. stock location so the turbos should work more evenly. Did I miss something that hotsides are worse because of the air they ingest?

Edit: Just to be clear meth is inexpensive. $50 for 5 gallons. That's 10 gallons give or take when mixed with water. $5 a gallon and you only spray when under boost when you choose it to(psi). It lasts me long enough I have never once considered the cost of it.

Edit #2: I'm not saying don't do this. I guess my point is don't try and fix something if you can't prove it is broken. Doing something 'in theory' is not always the best thing to do. I do look forward to the interesting ways you try and get ambient air to the hotside inlets. If you can make it looks clean for small money great. Even better if it actually has improvements which can be seen in the real world, ETs, MPH, etc.
 
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The Convert

The Convert

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Torgus said:
I agree 100%. It is definitely better to suck in cooler vs. warmer air. No one is going to disagree with that. Water is still wet. In the real world though how much does that matter in this instance? You are talking theory/science vs. what does it matter in the real world.

A few accurate thermocouples logging at 30, 60, and 90 mph will tell us all a lot about the air the hot site intakes are taking in vs stock location.

Again, the whole reason I made my 1st post, which I was called out for trolling, was talking about in the real world where do you want to spend your time and money. Are there real world gains to be had from this? I have yet to see any data that shows stock location inlets perform better than hotside because of the air they ingest. If anything hotside have less of a pressure delta between them vs. stock location so the turbos should work more evenly. Did I miss something that hotsides are worse because of the air they ingest?

Edit: Just to be clear meth is inexpensive. $50 for 5 gallons. That's 10 gallons give or take when mixed with water. $5 a gallon and you only spray when under boost when you choose it to(psi). It lasts me long enough I have never once considered the cost of it.

Edit #2: I'm not saying don't do this. I guess my point is don't try and fix something if you can't prove it is broken. Doing something 'in theory' is not always the best thing to do. I do look forward to the interesting ways you try and get ambient air to the hotside inlets. If you can make it looks clean for small money great. Even better if it actually has improvements which can be seen in the real world, ETs, MPH, etc.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, I doubt I'll ever have data on it. I just plan on making a copy of each piece for myself over who knows how long. I'm a slow mover with too many projects across too many hobbies. We'll see though.
 
dyezak

dyezak

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beating-a-dead-horse-call-me-maybe.jpg
 
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langsbr

langsbr

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I look at it this way. At idle, sure, IATs can approach or reach 150 degrees. Not optimal sure, but at idle, that's probably the temp of the air entering the filters just due to heat soak and placement.

Once you start moving, the air is replaced so fast that it's going to be ambient air anyways, or so close that it won't have time to reach 150 in the engine bay, as that air is immediately replaced and new fresh air ingested.

How much money and time do you invest to make sure your idle IATs are 10 - 15 degrees less?
 
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08_335i

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dyezak said:
I hate to dig up a dead topic, but if you really want a cold air intake on the hot side for twins or bottom mount single you can use this. It's a 335d cold air intake. You'd need the hot side 335d snorkel as well.

http://www.dieselops.com/atm-intake-kit-for-bmw-335d-2009-2011

atm-intake-kit-for-bmw-335d-2009-2011-1.jpg
Click to expand...

If it fits properly, which I assume it would depending what would be in its way (anything is relocatable) this is a pretty neat option for twins or bottom mounts. Plus, it even says All The Money!
 
The Convert

The Convert

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dyezak said:
I hate to dig up a dead topic, but if you really want a cold air intake on the hot side for twins or bottom mount single you can use this. It's a 335d cold air intake. You'd need the hot side 335d snorkel as well.

http://www.dieselops.com/atm-intake-kit-for-bmw-335d-2009-2011

atm-intake-kit-for-bmw-335d-2009-2011-1.jpg
Click to expand...
I would put money on that not fitting. I bought an OEM 335d box hoping that I would just have to make a tube from the box to the turbo, but there isn't clearance between the box and the engine. The 335d engine sits more vertically, or something, but it has more room between the shock tower and the motor.
 
R.G.

R.G.

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Anyone know the ID of the filter connection on that ATM piece? Basically exactly what I was planning on throwing together for the top mount with heat shielding on bottom.

Take a look at @Lifestyler 's build thread. 12th photo posted page 1. See what I see?
 
The Convert

The Convert

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The other part that won't fit is the 335d snorkel. I bought that too and it gets hung up on the ac charging port and the oil cooler lines. Forgot about that part earlier.

Although, if anyone wants to buy a brand new 335d intake box and snorkel, I'll sell mine.
 
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