Opinions on FrankenTurbo F21Bi Turbo Upgrade

[DennisKing]

Oh some nameless guy? BAHAHAHAHA! By nameless guy you mean "Turbocharger Systems" in Scappoose, OR who built all his turbos. The nameless guy that has been in business for over 19 years, and has a 5 star rating with BBB that nameless guy? This conversation is well over a year old. Doug may have burned another bridge with someone trying to work with him, and moved on, as it sounds he does frequently with people get tired of his shit. I will be interested to hear your comebacks when the really good parts of the conversation are posted. Stay tuned!

I'm familiar with his business. I've been in the Portland market for some time. He doesn't build or assemble Doug's turbos. You can very easily "buy" a 5star rating with the BBB. Anyone in business knows how the BBB works.

Again, I try to not overstep my bounds with info that isn't mine to share.

I just find it funny that around the time you decide to enter the VAG market with your Zage supplied turbos, you start to talk smack about another competitor as a way to gain market share. It's really too bad because competition actually breeds better business but it seems like you're so territorial, you feel the need to undercut others with misinformation and half truths.

Everyone sees thru it.

rant over

 

[Tony@VargasTurboTech]

I'm familiar with his business. I've been in the Portland market for some time. He doesn't build or assemble Doug's turbos.

Careful now, tread very carefully. It is not going to help Doug at all if you are caught in a bold face lie on his behalf. I have direct proof that they did, in fact, build ALL of Doug Turbos at least for a 1-2 year period. As I said maybe he moved on now because no one put up with his lies for long. Who know's, but I would be very very careful what you say. Also, I have emails where I can show I DID NOT illicit this conversation. We were emailed out of the blue, and told Doug was trying to copy our products, and the company would like to have a phone conversation about it. Keep in mind, there is a paper trail for all of this. I would just step aside, and let Doug lie for himself if that is what he wants to do. The hornet's nest is kicked now, no putting the Hornets back inside.

Here is a smidge of the evidence I have that TS was indeed building Doug's stuff. He sent me pictures of the package labels from the boxes Doug would bring him of the parts he was importing...

 

[DennisKing]

I said he doesn't build or assemble Doug's turbos. He still doesn't. I have no idea if Doug was trying to find a local shop to assemble his product when he moved to the Portland area. That's not my place nor my concern. I know who assembles the F21 product. Doug is a friend who's shown considerable generosity to me over the past few years and I will try not to butt in to his business and talk about things that aren't my place but I'll also defend him, without overstepping my bounds when it's needed. I'm sure you can appreciate that.

So out of the 12 sentences I wrote, you rebut the only thing you can.
Is that because what I said is true? You're trying to talk trash about the competition of a market you are attempting to enter and make profit in, the VAG market, where FT has a strong presence?
Because that was my point Tony.
Listen, I'm sure you're a nice guy. I actually really like some of your solutions for the N54 but I see through this BS and it's silly. You don't need to do it to gain market share.

 

[Tony@VargasTurboTech]

The audio file clearly states he had worked building all Doug's turbos including his BMW stuff for a year, and half. I spoke with them a few times after that, and they were still working for Doug, so I will say it again. Tread very carefully, because right now you are making it look pretty bad.

As for Doug being dishonest, and a bad business man. I do not care, that is for the people who have to deal with him to care about. When I do care is when he is stealing designs, copying products, bringing our name into his posts, etc. At that time he will be exposed for what he is. Someone that will photoshop compressor maps, and call them his own, will surely do much more shady things behind closed doors. So if people want the truth about what was going on with Frankenturbo, and their BMW products, we have some interesting facts... Take care

 

[ChrisNeil5]

Im a strong supporter of the Frankenturbos brand, I've ran his turbos on my previous VAG car over 100K, no issues , I recently acquired a set of F21 Turbos for my N54, if Frankenturbos design a turbo for whatever I'm driving fkr the rest of my life it will be on my car.

 

[Tony@VargasTurboTech]

Here we go! In typical Frankenturbo fashion all of sudden random people from other platforms show up to say how great his stuff is. Must be the FT rally cry, or he is paying them, same way he pays his tastemakers for reviews/results that well still haven’t managed to show up.

 

[ChrisNeil5]

Here we go! In typical Frankenturbo fashion all of sudden random people from other platforms show up to say how great his stuff is. Must be the FT rally cry, or he is paying them, same way he pays his tastemakers for reviews/results that well still haven’t managed to show up.

Tony honestly I'm new to these forums because I avoid these kind of things, when I was Initially looking for turbos before I knew Frankenturbos was putting something out for this platform I looked at your turbos and had lots of conversations with Chris at your shop, he's a great guy and fullo of knowledge, a business needs a nice guy, I'd let him handle your affairs I think you'll find yourself in a better place for your business. The term " Nice guys finish last" doesn't apply in the business world

 

[08_335i]

I'll just swing by, I ran a F21 on my old VAG car, turbo screamed, car screamed, Was a fun car. Never had turbo issues while owning the car and putting many, many very abusive miles on the turbo, and running it far out of its efficiency zone. But hey, what does anyone know who isn't supportive of the other side?

 

[Torgus]

Just ignore Vargas the Turbo Troll

 

[PUTC]

As much as I like a lot of Tony’s products and the ingenuity he brings to the n54 world I cannot respect how you act towards other vendors. It is always a flame war, no matter what. Let Doug pass or fail on his own. If he’s a liar, it will come out. Let the person lied to tell us all to beware and what happened. You are just preaching doomsday from rumors and stuff from years ago. Doug does have a lot of good things about his turbos for VAG. A lot of happy customers. You say you hate people copying your stuff but all you did was call him an idiot for not copying all the trials and tribulations of everyone else who have advanced the platform. You can’t have it both ways. What I wouldn’t give for posts where vendors weren’t allowed their opinions. I want to hear from customers who have “used” his turbos, past and present. Sorry for the rant. Doug I don’t know you and you might be a liar, Tony you have a mixed background of good and bad also. I really think you should both be adults in this and just let the Customer decide what they want. Stop flaming each other

 

[ShocknAwe]

I was considering these initially, sent emails back and forth with Doug.

I was left with am incredibly bad taste in my mouth when he wouldn't detail ballpark performance data on common fuels (91/93/E30/E50, no meth, nothing crazy), and most importantly wouldn't comment on his products reliability/longevity. I specifically asked about the VAG turbo longevity history and he dodged my questions every time.

I'll leave it there. I have no interest in a smear campaign, but thought this may be important to some folks in a similar position.

 

[fmorelli]

I was considering these initially, sent emails back and forth with Doug.

I was left with am incredibly bad taste in my mouth when he wouldn't detail ballpark performance data on common fuels (91/93/E30/E50, no meth, nothing crazy), and most importantly wouldn't comment on his products reliability/longevity. I specifically asked about the VAG turbo longevity history and he dodged my questions every time.

I'll leave it there. I have no interest in a smear campaign, but thought this may be important to some folks in a similar position.

You could always try Marshall Lee's turbos

Filippo

 

[PUTC]

Not really a smear just an honest opinion from a potential customer. Thanks for your input

 

[TEC]

I was considering these initially, sent emails back and forth with Doug.

I was left with am incredibly bad taste in my mouth when he wouldn't detail ballpark performance data on common fuels (91/93/E30/E50, no meth, nothing crazy), and most importantly wouldn't comment on his products reliability/longevity. I specifically asked about the VAG turbo longevity history and he dodged my questions every time.

I'll leave it there. I have no interest in a smear campaign, but thought this may be important to some folks in a similar position.

I'm not following this:

Why would he have ballpark data on performance for common fuels or longevity data on a product that is in BETA testing? There have already been at least two dyno post on pump gas for these turbos that have been posted. I would expect that the BETA testers are going to provide data on other fuels. Also, isnt one of the purposes of BETA testing to figure out longevity reliability issues? If he already had this data what's the point of doing the BETA testing?

Why would you ask about VAG turbo longevity? What is the importance of this on a BMW platform? Would you call up Robert at Forced Performance and ask him about the history, longevity of the FP Green on DSM's in order to make a decision on a Xona single turbo for your BMW?

I'm not sure how any of this helps the OP answer the questions he has about the Frankenturbo's for the BMW N54.

 

[ShocknAwe]

You're being intentionally obtuse. These have been in testing for 2 years. If dynographs don't exist for 91/93 and common ethanol mixes I'll eat my shoes. I wasn't asking for precise figures, rather estimates so I could determine if they were appropriate for my goals. Doug couldn't even give me that. If you don't know how your product performs, it isn't ready for sale. And yes, a "beta" where you pay $2000 is a customer purchasing a product.

Furthermore, he has a long history producing aftermarket turbos on the VAG platform. OBVIOUSLY there isn't data for the N54 F21b.xx whatever it's designated. But, he does have longevity data on the turbos these are based on from the 2.7T S4 as well as common failures. How do those hold up? That was my question.

Bottom line, he dodged the questions rather than answering, or simply saying he didn't know. That's it. I'd rather a vendor who will. Take the information however you like. Hope it helps someone who is on the fence.

I'm not following this:

Why would he have ballpark data on performance for common fuels or longevity data on a product that is in BETA testing? There have already been at least two dyno post on pump gas for these turbos that have been posted. I would expect that the BETA testers are going to provide data on other fuels. Also, isnt one of the purposes of BETA testing to figure out longevity reliability issues? If he already had this data what's the point of doing the BETA testing?

Why would you ask about VAG turbo longevity? What is the importance of this on a BMW platform? Would you call up Robert at Forced Performance and ask him about the history, longevity of the FP Green on DSM's in order to make a decision on a Xona single turbo for your BMW?

I'm not sure how any of this helps the OP answer the questions he has about the Frankenturbo's for the BMW N54.

 

[TEC]

These have been in testing for 2 years.

I believe you are wrong. They didn't have a prototype ready (or at least reported) until the end of 2016 (Oct/Nov). The beta testing didn't start until a few months ago. That't not a lot of time for longevity testing.

If dynographs don't exist for 91/93 and common ethanol mixes I'll eat my shoes. I wasn't asking for precise figures, rather estimates so I could determine if they were appropriate for my goals.

As I stated before, at least two dyno charts have been posted before for pump gas. I'm not sure why you couldn't have found this on your own... but okay. I would think that the two dynos would supply enough info on what the turbos are capable of but maybe that's not enough for some buyers...I don't know.

And yes, a "beta" where you pay $2000 is a customer purchasing a product

Paying to be a part of a beta test where you get a discount for purchasing and reporting back on the product isn't new. I believe everyones favorite vendor VTT did something similar for their "new" chinacast stage 1 and stage 2 turbos.

Furthermore, he has a long history producing aftermarket turbos on the VAG platform. OBVIOUSLY there isn't data for the N54 F21b.xx whatever it's designated. But, he does have longevity data on the turbos these are based on from the 2.7T S4 as well as common failures. How do those hold up? That was my question.

And I am still not sure what VAG turbos have to do with the price of tea in China when it comes to the N54 turbos. If you did any research at all you would have seen where he stated the N54 turbos are NOT the same as the VAG turbos. He even talked about how he went through a few different designs to get to the specific compressor wheel that he is using on these turbos. While the wheels might be similar in that they are both "mixed flow", the turbo themselves are not the same. He also mentioned a few other things about the turbos that are supposedly upgrades to the center section as well.

So again, I don't understand how Audi/VW turbo longevity has anything to do with BMW N54 turbo longevity since they are different turbos. However, since I sold my B5 S4 to buy my current 335i, I can tell you that the FT turbos were great on that car which is why I am considering buying a set for my 335i.

Bottom line, he dodged the questions rather than answering, or simply saying he didn't know. That's it. I'd rather a vendor who will. Take the information however you like. Hope it helps someone who is on the fence.

Your entitled to your opinion, however, it is my opinion that maybe you didn't do any research on the product and that the questions you asked may have seemed to Doug to be an attempt to draw him into a pissing contest which is why he chose not to answer your questions. You will notice from his responses, that unlike Tony at VTT, he shies away from argumentative and troll type posting.

 

[boostE92d]

So it's ok for a turbo dealer to not have information readily available on expected power and expected longevity of their products?

 

[boostE92d]

Longevity of turbos on the VAG platforms should translate directly to ours.

 

[mfractal]

What a rotten person this Tony is.
Don't know him personally and after seeing all the crap and negativity he's spreading around the forums i will never ever consider buying anything from him. Can't fathom why anybody else would.

 

[ShocknAwe]

No idea why you're being so defensive. Please do not try to discredit everything, not everyone has a stake in this.

I believe you are wrong. They didn't have a prototype ready (or at least reported) until the end of 2016 (Oct/Nov). The beta testing didn't start until a few months ago. That't not a lot of time for longevity testing.



As I stated before, at least two dyno charts have been posted before for pump gas. I'm not sure why you couldn't have found this on your own... but okay. I would think that the two dynos would supply enough info on what the turbos are capable of but maybe that's not enough for some buyers...I don't know.



Paying to be a part of a beta test where you get a discount for purchasing and reporting back on the product isn't new. I believe everyones favorite vendor VTT did something similar for their "new" chinacast stage 1 and stage 2 turbos.



And I am still not sure what VAG turbos have to do with the price of tea in China when it comes to the N54 turbos. If you did any research at all you would have seen where he stated the N54 turbos are NOT the same as the VAG turbos. He even talked about how he went through a few different designs to get to the specific compressor wheel that he is using on these turbos. While the wheels might be similar in that they are both "mixed flow", the turbo themselves are not the same. He also mentioned a few other things about the turbos that are supposedly upgrades to the center section as well.

So again, I don't understand how Audi/VW turbo longevity has anything to do with BMW N54 turbo longevity since they are different turbos. However, since I sold my B5 S4 to buy my current 335i, I can tell you that the FT turbos were great on that car which is why I am considering buying a set for my 335i.



Your entitled to your opinion, however, it is my opinion that maybe you didn't do any research on the product and that the questions you asked may have seemed to Doug to be an attempt to draw him into a pissing contest which is why he chose not to answer your questions. You will notice from his responses, that unlike Tony at VTT, he shies away from argumentative and troll type posting.