New HPFP Upgrade - SpoolPerformance Helix

[Bnks334]

I suggest you do a little bit of research. I know it's hard for people to wrap their heads around that we did this 5 years ago, but that's the case. If you look up our original testing, we have charts, graphs, logs, dynos, you name it, we did it, and we shared it. We just did it so far ahead of everyone else it was really not understood until now someone else is trying to do it. I know you may not understand the competitive advantage, but we have nothing to prove here. The shotgun works, and works well, as proven not by our cars, but by hundreds of customer cars running it. If anything Spool needs to be sharing their data to prove their upgrade works. We did that 5 years ago, again just do a little research. We are not going to hold a competitors hand and help them. This is business 101.

Chris

This data? : The "Single Barrel" HPFP kit replaces your existing HPFP. Using our mounting system the new pump is relocated in the accessory cluster to be overdriven by the belt. Coupled with our new feed line, and rail modification this provides enough fuel for around 550WHP on 100% E85, with blends it can support even higher. We went through numerous pulley designs to find the optimum overdrive speed that would optimize flow, pressure and longevity of the new components."

I see multiple forums where people requested logs after release and nothing was ever provided. I do see some USERS posting their own real world results which quite frankly don't exactly shed the Shotgun in good light when you read through the posts. I don't see where VTT ever released any product specifications outside of "you can run full e85." Maybe I am just speaking out of ignorance though... I see some old posts on N54 Tech that utilized the double barrel setup and your turbos for about 550whp. Again that's not really proof of much of anything nor does it provide the users with any kind of product specifications.

 

[veer90]

No way... Chris you guys really should do better job at redacting documents LOL

All I had to do was select all copy paste (Ctrl+A Ctrl+C Ctrl+V) into Word. It's all right there. I've attached your original PDF re-saved. Anyone can see I didn't alter your numbers.

I'm curious where you got the Spool data from though, as it's not your product and as their direct competitor there's no incentive to share it with you.

 

[Bnks334]

View attachment 27709

No way... Chris you guys really should do better job at redacting documents LOL

All I had to do was select all copy paste (Ctrl+A Ctrl+C Ctrl+V) into Word. It's all right there. I've attached your original PDF re-saved. Anyone can see I didn't alter your numbers.

I'm curious where you got the Spool data from though, as it's not your product and as their direct competitor there's no incentive to share it with you.

Yeah adobe sucks for security. You used to be able to by-pass passwords as well lol. The things you learn in audit...

Could've just done this 6 pages ago instead of the beating around the bush replys. Could've even left the spool comparison out of it altogether lol

 

[veer90]

Based on the data VTT provided, whether Shotgun or Helix is the faster overdrive will depend on the OD ratio of the helix. I did calculations based on the 3x and 4x figures we've heard floating around.

With formulas, because Chris loves to question my math.

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

Another little fun fact. The biggest reason we lost a few of the early welded housing was due to using the stock belt with increased tension on it. Went to a larger belt, and the cracked housing issue went away. So we changed housing design due to cracking, wrong. The single piece housing is more expensive to manufacture, wrong. Exactly what I said about the internets. Everyone is an expert, please keep it up. I am enjoying this.

Chris

So have you seen zero cracked housing issues since these changes? Also not asking about ones that HAVE but with excuses, just asking if you have literally seen none crack/break whatsoever... as is what you have eluded to in the above passage?

Rob

 

[veer90]

The OD ratio is 4.1... Joel gave me the ok to post this. So there we have it based on VTT's own pulley measurements, the Helix will be faster if they stick to that OD ratio.

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

The OD ratio is 4.1... Joel gave me the ok to post this. So there we have it based on VTT's own pulley measurements, the Helix will be faster if they stick to that OD ratio.

That just means that the Shotgun spins faster than 4.1... see below:

We can say with 110% certainty this does not spin the HPFP as fast as the shotgun on the belt does.
Chris

We would love for Spool to release their RPM data, we already have it.

Chris

 

[yuli8466]

I worry about the noise of helix..... if the gear running at over 10K rpms... it's not a bearing. it's gear.

 

[veer90]

That just means that the Shotgun spins faster than 4.1... see below:

No it doesn't Rob. Read my last posts starting from page 5. And when you finish read them again.

Everything is laid out fairly clearly. I'm not going to sit here and explain the HPFP drive sprocket to someone who by his own admission has never torn into an N54.

 

[Silentkiller335i]

I suggest you do a little bit of research. I know it's hard for people to wrap their heads around that we did this 5 years ago, but that's the case. If you look up our original testing, we have charts, graphs, logs, dynos, you name it, we did it, and we shared it. We just did it so far ahead of everyone else it was really not understood until now someone else is trying to do it. I know you may not understand the competitive advantage, but we have nothing to prove here. The shotgun works, and works well, as proven not by our cars, but by hundreds of customer cars running it. If anything Spool needs to be sharing their data to prove their upgrade works. We did that 5 years ago, again just do a little research. We are not going to hold a competitors hand and help them. This is business 101.

Chris

This whole sneak peak post wasn’t planned. Someone (misfire race) leaked photos and made a post claiming it was his or some shit , so it forced spool to make this reveal so everyone wouldn’t think it was MR design. All the data is almost finished just working on some last few things, that is why spool didn’t post its data yet. Helix works have it on my car when I set the WR 60-130.

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

No it doesn't Rob. Read my last posts starting from page 5. And when you finish read them again.

Everything is laid out fairly clearly. I'm not going to sit here and explain the HPFP drive sprocket to someone who by his own admission has never torn into an N54.

Not sure where the "not torn into an N54" has came from, have had one on a stand since ~2010? Fully rebuilt? No. Torn down? Yes. (NOTE: We have zero interest in rebuilding N54's for the community).

Anyway perhaps you need to look into the meaning of jest, then re-read the post I made.

Rob

 

[veer90]

This whole sneak peak post wasn’t planned. Someone (misfire race) leaked photos and made a post claiming it was his or some shit , so it forced spool to make this reveal so everyone wouldn’t think it was MR design.

Such a shame.

I have it on good authority too that Jake Ulch catfished a well known tuner for his PCV setup and stole the design. Then put together his infamous "I can build you a PnP Kit" dual catch can offering he's been pushing on facebook.

Good thing the Helix requires machining equipment to manufacture. Ulch probably too dumb to operate it even if he had the tooling.

 

[Sbrach]

Has anyone put a scope on the hpfp solenoid, does it go 100% duty cycle or does the dme cap it below that?

I did this a year and a half ago and added the HPFP VCV control tables to increase duty cycle which is what allowed E50 DI only on N55 E series. The DME does not command 100% duty on a stock tune but 100% flow != 100% duty.

 

[Weehe]

I did this a year and a half ago and added the HPFP VCV control tables to increase duty cycle which is what allowed E50 DI only on N55 E series. The DME does not command 100% duty on a stock tune but 100% flow != 100% duty.

Did that ever get released/added to a XDF?

 

[Sbrach]

I shared it with MHD and it was used for the OTS maps. MHD controls xdf versions. I'm not sure which tuners this was shared with or if it will be made public. We can offer custom tunes with this functionality at Wedge Performance.

 

[Weehe]

I shared it with MHD and it was used for the OTS maps. MHD controls xdf versions. I'm not sure which tuners this was shared with or if it will be made public. We can offer custom tunes with this functionality at Wedge Performance.

That is unfortunate but I understand wanting to monetize it. Don't have a need for a custom tune as this would be the only extra thing I'd want on top of my own map. I'll keep my fingers crossed MHD will update the public XDF at some point.

 

[Rob09msport]

Is 4 to 1 saying 4 times stock speed or just that is ratio vs crank speed?

 

[SJ_1989]

I assume when 4.1:1 is used that's the drive ratio of the additional gear set of the Spool. No way is that the overall drive ratio compared to engine speed. Shotgun final drive is 1.77. Spool is 2.32 under this assumption (if 4.1 is the true number).

If the inputs are correct, then I get the same results as @veer90 . Different approach using the V=omega * radius equation. This is directly proportional to flow under the assumption your inlet conditions are acceptable. So, Shotgun yields 1.7x the flow over stock. Spool is 4.1x.

 

[fmorelli]

I don't get why these threads need to devolve into a bunch of cockfighting. This thread is half really interesting stuff and half Red Light Octagon Special ...

Filippo

 

[Torgus]

I don't get why these threads need to devolve into a bunch of cockfighting. This thread is half really interesting stuff and half Red Light Octagon Special ...

Filippo

I know what you mean. I don't get why VTT felt they were required to come in to the thread and throw shade and spread FUD. This thread would have stayed on track and been full of useful information if that did not happen. Very unprofessional of a vendor.

VTT is fake news.

It is amusing though but I preferred when Tony posted.