How far can you go with a stock or maybe modified Z4 35is N54 airbox?

CantSitStill

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Jul 22, 2022
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Should also mention im still using the OEM outlet pipes with the crushed RHD pipe on the rear turbo so my WGDC could probably be lowered yet if i could find decent RHD outlets. I few guys i spoke to say modding the RHD pipe actually can make it worse due to turbulence against the welds in the pipe...bmw oem looks bad but its been shaped in a certain way that's actually not that restrictive over LHD OEM outlets.
 

pbondar

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May 30, 2020
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NO we didn't do multiple runs in that config..we were comparing V9 vs V10 so it was just one run of many..this dyno I use a lot and the boys get very consistent results..I was ondering how you made the right angle turn out of the bottom of the box?
 

CantSitStill

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Jul 22, 2022
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I used a hole saw and some ram air pipe with a right-angle adapter. Also some good old jbweld to fit it to the airbox. Funny how many times that stuff gets used on my cars....

 

CantSitStill

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Jul 22, 2022
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NO we didn't do multiple runs in that config..we were comparing V9 vs V10 so it was just one run of many..this dyno I use a lot and the boys get very consistent results..I was ondering how you made the right angle turn out of the bottom of the box?
I have a spare single DCI if you need one as well and are in the UK. I think its from a VRFS or Burger set...the odd bend in the mesh but not bad condition
 

pbondar

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May 30, 2020
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I have a spare single DCI if you need one as well and are in the UK. I think its from a VRFS or Burger set...the odd bend in the mesh but not bad condition
Thnx ..I already have a pair of VSRF DCIs unused for this..appreciate the offer!
 

pbondar

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I used a hole saw and some ram air pipe with a right-angle adapter. Also some good old jbweld to fit it to the airbox. Funny how many times that stuff gets used on my cars....

Great I'll see how we go on the dyno and then revert to this design if the shortfall is too bad..!
 

pbondar

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My pondering leads me to this questions with a Mr 5 mod how and when what air flows from where when…

Does the DCI cone offer less resistance to the air box or does the filtered air via the front cold feed prevail?

What would be really cool is to have a spring loaded flap that only opened the path to the DCI after the air feed via the cold air intake feed was exhausted ?
 

mikesrex

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Mar 11, 2018
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I’m currently running a z4 lid on my stock 535i airbox and wondering if DCI will work better. What do you think is the easiest way to compare different intake setups? I’m thinking of using dragy or maybe even looking at the logs
 

Darke Peak

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Aug 23, 2022
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Dyno results show that stock airbox and filter perform identical to a K&N panel filter or dual cone intakes, at least up to 370whp (Mainline) to 430whp (Dynojet).

It may be a different story at 500whp but I need to resolve a sneaky misfire before I can test it.

Also, the port injection plate and new 335is engine mount raise my inlet manifold and cause the stock airbox lid to interfere with the bonnet/hood, so I’m stuck on DCI until I can resolve it. It won’t stop me testing the setups including my Mr 5 intake, when the time comes.

 

pbondar

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May 30, 2020
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As discussed on FB…very interesting ..I’ll test the theory in 2 weeks with stock filter, foam filter, no filter and no airbox lid on the same dyno as it showed 400 BHP on mhd v10 stage 2+ Ron 98..same test showed about 8 BHP extra with no airbox lid....4 BHP no filter…on the same dyno looking for 500-550bhp…

 
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Darke Peak

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Aug 23, 2022
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Good luck! I got my misfire sorted today - turned out to be coils (or my DME doesn’t like Eldor). I hope to be back on the dyno next week or the following week.
 
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pbondar

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Good luck! I got my misfire sorted today - turned out to be coils (or my DME doesn’t like Eldor). I hope to be back on the dyno next week or the following week.
Surprised at Eldor but it’s all a bit hit n miss (pun) once you start the boost..I’m booked in for the 30th May if my Indy pulls his finger out..been sat there for a week, only started work on it today..🙈
 
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pbondar

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So an interesting day on the dyno…

For those who can’t cope with a detailed dissertation here’s the distillation of over 25 dyno runs over 2 years…

The stock airbox and paper filter are good for about 400bhp…there is a very small, less than 10 BHP penalty for the airbox and filter together..I’ve not tested DCIs but haven’t seen any evidence to suggest they would do any better.

However, once you go past 400 BHP the stock filter first then the stock airbox design progressively inhibits the power.

At around 500 BHP the paper filter creates a 29 BHP penalty compared to the stock airbox with no filter in it..a foam filter has a 23 BHP penalty.

This shows that any filter is getting to the edge.

It turns out even the empty airbox with no filter is now restricting the engine..

With a Mr.5 auxiliary inlet ,with blended airflow into the inner plenum with exactly the same tune the stock airbox with paper filter generates 25 BHP more than the otherwise stock airbox with no filter ie around 526 BHP ie a 55 bhp gain like for like!
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fmorelli

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@NoQuarter see I knew we were on to something! Nice work, @pbondar .... also I am inclined to believe that the very poor intake junction over the front core support is wholly insufficient to provide the required air.
 
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pbondar

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@NoQuarter see I knew we were on to something! Nice work, @pbondar .... also I am inclined to believe that the very poor intake junction over the front core support is wholly insufficient to provide the required air.
I've spent so much time on the dyno I think they'll throw me out if I ask to do any more modss /runs..

They were very very impressed with the impact of the mod and its neatness..
 
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Krampus

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Try dci's so we don't have to guess how they work. Yes, one dyno run will probably still go and they won't throw you out :sweatsmile:.
 
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Darke Peak

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Aug 23, 2022
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My dyno results were different. I found the stock setup was only restricting 10whp at those higher power levels.

Testing was done on a Mainline dyno.
Conversion to Dynojet using 1.17 factor.
 
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Torgus

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Yes a DCI dyno would be great to see. The filter area of DCI looks like roughly ~2x stock air box give or take. I do not buy much into the colder air theory as they go through a glowing hot turbine and e85 or meth takes care of the higher AITs in most cases with a higher AKI.

IIRC the highest twin dynos had the front turbo with a filter where a normal single turbo would sit with a Vstack. This means moving everything over like you would on a single turbo set up. The rear was a silicone inlet with a big filter on it and v stack where the stock air filter would reside.

Either way great to see results with data behind them. The more data the better for all of us. Thanks for taking the time and money to dyno and show these results.
 
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studio54

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Yes a DCI dyno would be great to see. The filter area of DCI looks like roughly ~2x stock air box give or take. I do not buy much into the colder air theory as they go through a glowing hot turbine and e85 or meth takes care of the higher AITs in most cases with a higher AKI.

IIRC the highest twin dynos had the front turbo with a filter where a normal single turbo would sit with a Vstack. This means moving everything over like you would on a single turbo set up. The rear was a silicone inlet with a big filter on it and v stack where the stock air filter would reside.

Either way great to see results with data behind them. The more data the better for all of us. Thanks for taking the time and money to dyno and show these results.

Yes, I agree, for a complete comparison, a dyno with DCI would have been great !

The setup pbondar made with the internal plumbing makes think about what you said that I bolded (at a different level of course). His internal plumbing is clearly pointing the rear inlet, and maybe the air from the auxiliary inlet feeds mostly the rear inlet, while the front inlet gets more air for itself from the stock filter. On the standard Mr5, there isn't internal plumbing, so both air feeds are blending in the plenum chamber, but arriving face to face which might be counter productive?
Just a thought, maybe I am saying bullshit too 😅
 
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pbondar

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As an amateur aero dynamicist ( I ran an avaition basis involved in the design and operation of 'special operations' ) it didn't seem logical to have two airflows hitting each other as in the case of the stock airbox and its lid with lateral fins moulded into its top and the Mr.5 just entering the inner plenum chamber from the opposite direction.

I though blending the airflows was intutively better but as I discussed with both the fluid dynamacist and the dyno operator you never really no till either you dyno it and /or use something like Dragy on the road..but for me its scary enough trying to do 3 rd gear pulls on a public highway in rural Scotland where most roads are not flat and pretty bumpy.

I did mess around with 3 dimensions of tubing 30mm , 40mm and then 50mm..plus 5 different Pipercross foam filters, mostly smaller foam ones.

I wonder if the coen design of the Pipercross filter housing helps..alledgelly a copy of a Lotus design..

Only the final design was road tested and dyno tested.

For completeness I've pulled all the data logs I've done with these guys on both my N20 powered E89 and then the current N54 powered E89 for discussion and any observations.

For safety reasons (I didn't want bits getting sucked into the turbos) all my Mr.5 assembly immediately either side of the airbox hole I made are all glued together.

I would have liked in an ideal world to alter the angle / remove the right angle feed in the inner plenum chamber but time / cost and the sheer surprise that it worked (so well) meant we just quit while we were ahead.

As it debuted on V13 adn made such good numbers we then did re-flash V6 to confirm that the Mr.5 mod was the cause of the changes, as well as changing filters etc..the only thing we didn't do, apart from DCIs was try a V6 run with no airbox lid on at all..

However since I don't like the DCI sound (and have DVs rather than BOVs) neither a no lid and / or DCIS were considered useable for me..appreciate for science and the record that in an ideal world it should be tested.

At the moment no plans to go back to the dyno.

My tuner suggested on the basis of the numbers /Mr.5 that we could maybe reach 600 bhp with more boost but I've decided for street use / longevity I'll stick..he does plan to do a 'polish' to the V13+ which was a rough and ready last minute update.

We have had a boost leak that took me as a newbie much head scratching to solve ( although once as suggested I got a vacuum leak kit it was straight forward to find the hose that had been incorrectly fitted by the Indy who had fitted the turbos) plus a cyl 6 shutdown misfire which I understand my tuner after much datalogging has desensitized..I think..I do have a M2 DCT DMF to fit over the winter.

Maybe I'll get curious..again!

I'd like to thank my tuner Carabuser for all his help, patience and the 15 tunes he supplied plus much techncial discussion.

Also Dark Peake for discussions on the Mr.5 plus other E89 mods.


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