Heater Element - Delete it or put it back in?

[ShocknAwe]

Can't imagine why you'd want to delete something like this. Doesn't weigh much and is tied in with pcv and vapor emissions. Better to leave it alone or reroute if necessary.

Thing I'm learning through the 1M conversion I'm doing is routing doesn't seem to matter, whatever works to keep components functioning under the body and around the hardware elements.

 

[matreyia]

Can't imagine why you'd want to delete something like this. Doesn't weigh much and is tied in with pcv and vapor emissions. Better to leave it alone or reroute if necessary.

Thing I'm learning through the 1M conversion I'm doing is routing doesn't seem to matter, whatever works to keep components functioning under the body and around the hardware elements.

I would never delete this part, knowing what I experienced today. Apparently it is related to proper O2 sensor functionality, even though it is called a heater element.

 

[NoQuarter]

I would never delete this part, knowing what I experienced today. Apparently it is related to proper O2 sensor functionality, even though it is called a heater element.

I trust you are ready to feel this strongly about it.

I do not buy into this cause and affect at all.

 

[matreyia]

I trust you are ready to feel this strongly about it.

I do not buy into this cause and affect at all.

I didn't either, hearing that it was only a heater element. Alas, even ECS Tuning warns that it can short out and cause problems with the car's electrical systems.
Those codes for 02 sensors really surprised me because I literally just installed brand new 4 o2 sensors when I upgraded my turbos last week. So there's no way it can be o2 sensors. The only thing that was different was the tight tense wire connection due to the fact that I did not untangle it when I reconnected it to the heater element. This might have caused a short in the system and it actually shows there is was electrical fault in the line.
Not to mention the heater element I have now is already cracked at the receptacle end so if there is tension in the wire, the connection point will not stay straight but rather get pulled at an angle to the side and create unsteady connection intermittently.

 

[doublespaces]

I didn't either, hearing that it was only a heater element. Alas, even ECS Tuning warns that it can short out and cause problems with the car's electrical systems.
Those codes for 02 sensors really surprised me because I literally just installed brand new 4 o2 sensors when I upgraded my turbos last week. So there's no way it can be o2 sensors. The only thing that was different was the tight tense wire connection due to the fact that I did not untangle it when I reconnected it to the heater element. This might have caused a short in the system and it actually shows there is was electrical fault in the line.
Not to mention the heater element I have now is already cracked at the receptacle end so if there is tension in the wire, the connection point will not stay straight but rather get pulled at an angle to the side and create unsteady connection intermittently.

If I took the wires to the horn, shorted them out against other wires and got codes in my car that doesn't mean deleting the horn is a problem. While you can do however you please, you often come to the conclusion that A and B therefore C without any actual evidence.

I left cookies out at night, they were gone in the morning, therefore Santa IS real. Hopefully you see what I mean, there are other potential explanations.

 

[matreyia]

If I took the wires to the horn, shorted them out against other wires and got codes in my car that doesn't mean deleting the horn is a problem. While you can do however you please, you often come to the conclusion that A and B therefore C without any actual evidence.

I left cookies out at night, they were gone in the morning, therefore Santa IS real. Hopefully you see what I mean, there are other potential explanations.

1. Car ran fine without o2 codes for years.
2. Installed radium catch can and took out heater element wire.
3. Reconnected heater element wire but did not leave slack and was too taught at connector.
4. O2 faults and car ran rough with
- DME active codes -

2C2C - DME: Oxygen sensor 2 before catalytic converter: System check.
2C3E - DME: Oxygen sensor 2 before catalytic converter: Line fault.
2C7F - DME: Lambda control 2.
2CAB - DME: Oxygen sensor 2 before catalytic converter: Temperature

5. Disconnected heater element and rerouted wire to give slack.

6. Car ran normal with no error codes.

What evidence you need? Those are the conditions and errors. If you know something about this that I don't, I'm all ears. Otherwise, that is the evidence no matter what preconceptions anyone might have on the heater element. You, me, BMS... anyone in any forum.

Not saying it is the heater element definitely, but evidence shows that it only happened when that wire was disturbed. 1 week old o2 sensors.... so, it would not be o2 sensors and I did not even touch any o2 connections.

Neither am I saying that deleting the element will cause the same errors. However, shorting out the connection may cause such problems to the emissions system if false signals are being reported abort about the temperature for the pcv section which is directly relevant to the o2 and fuel trims...related to smooth or rough running engine.

Deleting - there is nothing to short out.
Damaged wire connection - short circuit possible.

Literally the only thing electrical that was touch was the heater element wire.

 

[The Convert]

Removing the heater element without coding it out causes the water pump to run longer after shutdown iirc.

 

[NoQuarter]

Removing the heater element without coding it out causes the water pump to run longer after shutdown iirc.

I haven't noticed this. However, I haven't done much more than let it warm up at idle since it was disconnected.

 

[matreyia]

I haven't noticed this. However, I haven't done much more than let it warm up at idle since it was disconnected.

View attachment 33938

I don't think deleting it is an issue. However, if you plug it in wrong and cause a short circuit like I did, the DME may give you a pre cat o2 sensor line fault, temperature fault, and your engine may start to go rough. Once I replugged it in straight the errors went away immediately.

 

[The Convert]

I don't think deleting it is an issue. However, if you plug it in wrong and cause a short circuit like I did, the DME may give you a pre cat o2 sensor line fault, temperature fault, and your engine may start to go rough. Once I replugged it in straight the errors went away immediately.

You would need to trace those wires out with a diagram and look at the logic before being able to come to that conclusion. Not saying you’re wrong, but a single experience is not proof either. Certainly an interesting experience nonetheless.

 

[matreyia]

CONFIRMING HEATER ELEMENT error codes.
I did a test and these code will arise if the wiring to the heater element is damaged or short circuited.

2C2C - DME: Oxygen sensor 2 before catalytic converter: System check.
2C3E - DME: Oxygen sensor 2 before catalytic converter: Line fault.
2C7F - DME: Lambda control 2.
2CAB - DME: Oxygen sensor 2 before catalytic converter: Temperature

Those of you who want to argue about it, be my guest. This was a controlled test where multiple times the wiring to the heater element was purposely shorted and the car driven around. It took less than 5 miles to the error codes to pop up.

Once the wiring was fixed and errors deleted, they did not come back. Repeating this for three times yielded the same results. SO: if you are getting these errors, then take a look at your heater element wiring. Note that the error is ONLY FOR Sensor #2. That makes sense since the heater element is connected to the rear turbo inlet which is connected to sensor #2.

I did not test the complete disabling/disconnecting of the heater element. Only tested short circuit of wires.

You're welcome.

 

[doublespaces]

Short the wires to the battery and let me know if you get any codes.

 

[matreyia]

Short the wires to the battery and let me know if you get any codes.

Short the wire to the battery to destroy your battery and your entire electrical system. No, you won't get codes at that point. You won't get anything with an exploded battery and fried system.

Or do you doubt this too? Go ahead and bind a connecting cable between the + - and leave them connected.

 

[matreyia]

Short the wires to the battery and let me know if you get any codes.

Are you telling me that if you purposely tested the heater element wiring by short circuiting it like I did multiple times and each time you got those errors... you would disregard the whole thing as a fluke?

If so, what do you think those errors were caused by, since you might be thinking that the testing and errors are merely coincidental?

Hopefully you also don't think that those specific errors can only be recreated by shorting the heater element wires. Obviously each error can have multiple causes. This test merely shows one cause leading to these specific errors.

 

[doublespaces]

I'm kidding. What I'm saying is that if you short any wires together, especially those that are sensors that rely on resistance or voltage of course you're gonna get weird shit happening. Removing the heater element and shorting the wires together are not the same thing which is why I said go cross some other wires, it's irrelevant.

 

[matreyia]

I'm kidding. What I'm saying is that if you short any wires together, especially those that are sensors that rely on resistance or voltage of course you're gonna get weird shit happening. Removing the heater element and shorting the wires together are not the same thing which is why I said go cross some other wires, it's irrelevant.

Did I say removing the heater element causes those errors? Or did I say shorting the wires to the heater element causes those errors in this case?

 

[doublespaces]

Did I say removing the heater element causes those errors? Or did I say shorting the wires to the heater element causes those errors in this case?

This is my thread, I asked if it is okay to delete the heater element.

 

[matreyia]

This is my thread, I asked if it is okay to delete the heater element.

I know you did. But I never said that deleting it would do anything. I said shorting out the heater element wires will yield those specific errors to sensor 2.

I even said multiple times, that I either did not know deleting it would do anything and/or I said I never tried testing this via completely deleting the element. Why? Because history shows deleting it does not yield any errors. And now history shows shorting out the heater element WILL produce line fault errors and sensor 2 faults.

 

[doublespaces]

I would never delete this part, knowing what I experienced today. Apparently it is related to proper O2 sensor functionality, even though it is called a heater element.

But I never said that deleting it would do anything.

You've sent a few messages and I don't really know which one I'm reply to at this point.

But from a purely supplemental information perspective it's good to know those codes will fire when those wires are shorted.

My point was this is not related to the original topic and at one point, you did in fact allude that it was related.

 

[matreyia]

You've sent a few messages and I don't really know which one I'm reply to at this point.

But from a purely supplemental information perspective it's good to know those codes will fire when those wires are shorted.

My point was this is not related to the original topic and at one point, you did in fact allude that it was related.

That was before. This is now. After testing the short circuit experiment, evidence shows that it will give rise to these specific errors. Or am I to understand that past ignorance of subjects is eternally bound to me since I spoke in ignorance?