VIP Get the 'Founder' Forum Title - Become a VIP member before the New Year!

[doublespaces]

I understand the fear of separating the group into rich people poor people or whatever you want to call it, financial segregation as put above. But seriously, when has something like that ever been my agenda? I've done the best I can to make things fair, so yes I do take it personally when someone claims I'm being unfair and I will demand they explain or prove their points. If I can be shown I'm being unfair, I will make it fair.

We have started taking on paid vendors and I find it critical to take in revenue from places other than vendors to maintain a certain balance, having more than a handful of shareholders voting if you will. Google ads is one revenue source but the people themselves for a small fee(whatever it ends up being) I truly think its a valuable and powerful thing.

If anyone has noticed, the board has had a blank page on the root(https://www.spoolstreet.com) teasing a new homepage. That is a blog setup to showcase the top threads, but it is also a fully functional wordpress front end, you just can't see it. I've reached out to several vendors over a year ago asking them to write articles for me while allowing them to post a plug for themselves so long as it was technical and informative and they expressed interest. That is just a model for a start anyway. Eventually I'd like to have actual articles written by insightful people who aren't direct members of this community, My goals and long term aspirations over the next several years is very large. So while the site may not command at $10/mo fee for all people, I hope one day it would.

 

[doublespaces]

For $9 I better be able to reign down fire on someone

Sorry, didn't touch on this. I had a reputation system in mind that ties into the current model. It would require custom development because it doesn't exist. And each time there is a board update, even minor ones, it will require more money to make it compatible. So far because of these complexities, I've just left it simple.
My idea was actually to have a neg rep cost money for both parties. Those who are most active can do the most down voting. If you are a new account or have no participation or have been downvoted, you have no credits to down vote anyone else.

 

[martymil]

That is just a plain stupid comparison, so how does a hyper car compare to a public access website

The website was free to begin with now you want to charge money which I can understand but not agree with.

As i stated there is other ways of generating income

Vendor advertising is the easiest as no vendor will refuse to pay for advertising if you have the traffic

I know you want to keep it clean but thats the way things run these days

Like I stated earlier why not do a mandatory poll and let everyone have their say not just a selected few that decided to enter this discussion and see what everyone really thinks

 

[doublespaces]

The website was free to begin with now you want to charge money which I can understand but not agree with.

There was never a charge for anything that was offered for free on this site. The charges arise from things that weren't going to be part of the picture otherwise, but you're refusing to see that. If this site started selling various things including membership upgrades and car parts, you would be mad if they weren't free, and that makes little sense to me. It doesn't matter if its a forum product or a physical product, if it takes time and effort to create and wouldn't be there otherwise, then it has value and should be charged for if the person wishes to. The people who do not agree with this are showing signs of entitlement. You are either oblivious or willfully ignorant to this fact and so there is nothing left to discuss I suppose. Once you can make the omission that there is a difference between charging for something that is currently free and charging for something that isn't even made yet and wouldn't be made otherwise, then this conversation becomes rational and something worth debating.

 

[martymil]

I understand it costs money but no matter what justification you try to put forward and how you try and sugar cost it it still feels like a money grab period.

You want to upgrade the site thats fine, but charge the people that get a financial gain from your traffic and not the ones creating it.

Love how you guys go on the attack and try to belittle people that have different views from you

I feel entitled, what's thst got to do what your trying to do and its plain and simple.

 

[fmorelli]

Most advertising is crawling over broken glass. I didn't come for the advertising. I came for the content and community.

I agree a smaller fee would likely engage more people. Charged annually it is a small price to pay. I suppose one could do it monthly, but annually works better a few ways if the cost is not a lot. If monthly (e.g., $3/mo), then maybe a healthy (e.g., 20%) discount for annual sign-up (e.g. $30).

Advertising only sucks. In business terms a forum is a multi-sided platform. What that means, simply, both participants and vendors reap value so the ability to translate that to dollars exist.

That said, I like the weather underground model - just spam the free members (e.g., Google ads) with ads, which may satisfy @martymil's of the world. For those that pay membership, ad free. The Google ads - those are advertisers. Spoolstreet vendors are "sponsors" and that's a different thing insofar as their access model, which you are establishing now. Just food for thought.

In regards to creating and running forums, I'm inclined to share my personal experience. I surmise most people here have not launched and run communities. Maybe some of what's below gives a bit of perspective:

When I started my communities, I spent the first two years working from 10pm to 2am many nights/week. This was after my 3 boys went to bed and my wife went to sleep. I loaned my upstart forum business $2,000 (back then that was a lot of money as a young guy with at-home mom and young kids). I paid for the costs by taking side work (beyond my day job, beyond being a dad to two kids at the time, etc). I sold and mailed t-shirts, stickers, whatever I could claw/scratch - I'm sure you can imagine that was minimum wage return, but cash was needed to pay for thing. Also in business, there is no rear view mirror that looks ahead. All this effort put in for something I had little idea whether it would eventually cover the bills or have any success.

Finally I landed on a membership model, where people paid to belong in the community. I then signed up vendors which were "sponsors". @barry@3DM remembers, as the company he co-founded back then, Bimmerworld, was my second signing sponsor after Turner Motorsport. They were sponsors because I did not let just any vendor become a sponsor - they had to be some kind of a known commodity in the marketplace (upstarts were fine - they were someone that was known in the community). So I left lots of money on the table, because I didn't have insurance companies, et al advertising to a high-dollar demographic. I also removed sponsors and members - a rare occasion thankfully, and always after many remediation attempts. Community first. But the hours dealing with bullshit behind the scenes ... hours I'll never get back in my life.

There was a whole group of people that thought I should just continue putting in all this time for free, and just cover server fees. There was some constructive criticism and a fair bit of ridicule. The irony of this - the cost was a pittance to join. I'll let others come to the conclusion of how and why they behaved that way. Honestly until one has run a community, one doesn't have the slightest ideas what the cost is - and that includes investment of time: show up. Post. Read. Oh and someone else pays a server bill (and gee a few paypal contribs will solve that). That's a common perspective. Instead, what I know: guys that have the chops to pull this (ala spoolstreet) off aren't stocking shelves at Home Depot. We do it because we love it, we're motivated in the space, and we have the perseverance to see it through - but at the cost of not doing something else far more fiscally lucrative I assure you.

I think you'll find the fee is not the deal killer. Success is not a formula. My groups ran to ~2,000 people with membership and sponsors. I can say a lot more about my experience, as I lived it in 3D Technicolor, but I think above is enough. I will say that, for me, spoolstreet has strong elements of the communities I ran ... which is probably how I ended up being a participant here. And yes, a bunch of the folks that participate here have a lot to do with it. They are here for a reason, too.

Hope this input gives some useful perspective ...

Filippo

 

[doublespaces]

All I have to say is being greedy is not how I would define myself. And if people are going to call me greedy behind my back going forward we just won't do it, because a few bucks wasn't going to pay for what I had planned anyway.

We will just go at a different pace and direction.

 

[Torgus]

All I have to say is being greedy is not how I would define myself. And if people are going to call me greedy behind my back going forward we just won't do it, because a few bucks wasn't going to pay for what I had planned anyway.

We will just go at a different pace and direction.

It was optional, in no way was it greedy man.

 

[langsbr]

All I have to say is being greedy is not how I would define myself. And if people are going to call me greedy behind my back going forward we just won't do it, because a few bucks wasn't going to pay for what I had planned anyway.

We will just go at a different pace and direction.

I in no way thought you were being greedy. Rather, I thought it a noble cause in trying to prevent being beholden to your advertisers, particularly in this cutthroat market of vendors shitting on other vendors left and right. I can see the predicament of "remove this thread or we'll leave" type of stuff.

I would definitely contribute on a donation system, even without additional features. I wish there was an easy answer that I could offer as to what I could say was needed (for me) to justify $9 per month, but it's kind of like obscenity - I know it when I see it.

 

[doublespaces]

I can see the predicament of "remove this thread or we'll leave" type of stuff.

You hit the nail on the head. This is a far FAR bigger problem then you might think. People will make you their enemy if you don't think every coin has Abe lincoln's head on both sides. There are actual politics to the other side of a forum, some of them are not easy to navigate while trying to pleasing everyone. The truth is you end up inconveniencing the people who support you the most in the name of maintaining a consistent stance with everyone else. A hands off approach is the method I've been taking by letting vendors be in charge of their own PR. I've stopped taking the brunt of that in the name of helping a company for moral or ethical reasons. Sometimes that means we let shitty companies have a voice and some unethical things occur, but that is the cost of seeking a truly neutral discussion medium and the reason we need the Octagon as well as better reputation controls.

Anyway this is shelved for now, I may revisit this later but I now have a better feel for what I'm trying to achieve. This was rushed and normally I'm slow and methodical. Outside my element.

 

[doublespaces]

One main problem was this VIP membership played one key component in keeping vendors in check. Vendors will have moderation capabilities within promotional threads they start. They moderate at their own peril, but VIP members were supposed to have the ability to read deleted posts. A sort of checks and balances to not only let vendors keep their advertising thread on track, but also let the upper peers of the community see if someone was being exposed and it was getting swept under the rug.

Now I need to find a solution to this issue. Vendors will be less liberal with the delete permissions if they know someone will be reviewing what they do.

 

[martymil]

I think a fund me donation system would work to and make this site totally driven by member and vendor donations.

Its not begging, if you want a set of new features this is the amount of money needed to be raised to implement them.

The problem I see with the vip system is that people are going to abuse it and feel entitled to more rights than others just because they can pay.

What I like about this website is that everybody is equal and can express their views equally.

 

[doublespaces]

I think a fund me donation system would work to and make this site totally driven by member and vendor donations.

Its not begging, if you want a set of new features this is the amount of money needed to be raised to implement them.

The problem I see with the vip system is that people are going to abuse it and feel entitled to more rights than others just because they can pay.

What I like about this website is that everybody is equal and can express their views equally.

Asking members for money is either greedy or it isn't. One way I'm trying to give them something for their money and another one I'm sending emails and posting asking for money to meet a certain goal. I'll be honest, I'm not spending my time after work away from my family staring at a computer so that I can do even more work for free. Spending too much time on the computer is already a real-life issue for my family and trying to organize a go fund me every time I want to upgrade something sounds like a great way to waste even more time. All of this because some people are afraid of some so-called inequality, even if its something as little as having access to a colored username or badge, god forbid other people get that... What you want sounds great for you, but there is a reason you're here and the other sites you came from never did this.

I've got a better idea. You come up with ideas for the site, gather all the money, get quotes on development work and put together the development plans often at awkward hours of the day and then let me know when you have it tested on a test forum and I'll get those features installed on the production site.

 

[martymil]

It was just a suggestion dont get your knickers in a twist.

You can run the website and charge what ever you like, just expressing what some members are thinking

 

[doublespaces]

It was just a suggestion dont get your knickers in a twist.

You can run the website and charge what ever you like, just expressing what some members are thinking

Again, I don't need anyone calling me greedy in the background and spreading the impression I run an unfair website. Its not worth it if that is how people actually feel.

 

[Erichale77]

When I clicked on account upgrades it said no upgrades available. Is this normal?

 

[martymil]

Again, I don't need anyone calling me greedy in the background and spreading the impression I run an unfair website. Its not worth it if that is how people actually feel.

I apologize if i called you greedy that wasn't my intention, overzealous is the word I was looking for.

I hope you guys can work out a better way of financing your upgrades than what was proposed

 

[NoQuarter]

I like the idea of a "basic" experience and an "advanced" experience and I would pay to support an advanced experience to unlock features that add value to me. In any other scenario, I wouldn't pay for an "as-yet-to-be-defined" experience but people pre-pay for stuff all the time and I have enough confidence here to support it.

In no way does an improved feature set for someone willing to pay for it mean anything other than that. Want a better experience? - you can become a bona fide member. Want to be a guest at the local gun club? or support it and be a paying member with membership benefits?

Want to buy a dog from the Humane Society and that is it? Or do you want to pay ongoing donations for something you want to help with? The fact that I am "rich" enough to support the Humane Society somehow disadvantages the non-supporting degens ? Or does it give them a place they can go to get a dog because there are others that give it the support it really needs?

 

[doublespaces]

I apologize if i called you greedy that wasn't my intention, overzealous is the word I was looking for.

I hope you guys can work out a better way of financing your upgrades than what was proposed

I can appreciate an opinion.

 

[doublespaces]

When I clicked on account upgrades it said no upgrades available. Is this normal?

Yes, the VIP upgrade has been disabled because it appears some members believe it is an unfair advantage of some kind.