VIP Get the 'Founder' Forum Title - Become a VIP member before the New Year!

[doublespaces]

I didnt say the price is too high at all, all I said some members wont be able to afford it at keeping them out of discussions in so called private areas is unfair,

Its your website you can do what you like, I'm just giving you an alternate view of what people think on the idea of the vip room.

Its your members and vendors that made this website popular, I've seen this on other websites and not automotive ones in the past and they fizzled out over time.

There is much more to making a successful forum than having members and vendors, otherwise this site wouldn't be here.

If you feel there is something unfair please be specific. Tell me exactly what is in the VIP room right now or typed of threads that could be there in the future that you feel is unfair.

If there is a collection of cat photos we keep in there, will people be upset?

 

[langsbr]

I totally understand the idea of a premium membership, and I may still at one point upgrade my account, but I just don't see the value right now relative to a regular membership. I probably shouldn't say that, because it's just more incentive to make more things require an upgraded membership.

I'll be honest, I would rather it be free and have ads on the sides of the page. I know that is anathema to your desire for advertiser independence Tyler, but I think subscription only works in the 2 edges of the bell curve - i.e. niche markets like Digitalpoint - a forum with a limited number of users but willing to pay since it's business focused, or something like Experts Exchange. On the other end, you have things like Spotify or Apple Music that are inexpensive because they scale to the millions of users. I have a number of subscription services, among them:

Plex (lifetime) $5/month or $120 lifetime
Media Center Master (lifetime) $4/month or $60 lifetime
Spotify (wife's) $10/month
Amazon Prime (annual) $13/month or $120/yr
Dollar Shave Club (well, just canceled it, but their Shave butter is FANTASTIC!) $6/month
Motor Trend Network $5/month
Netflix $11/month

I find that each of these services provide enough value to justify their price. Perhaps there will be new features to justify $9/month for Spoolstreet, but it's a hard sell at that price. I have quit purchasing magazines because of their increased cost - I think Super Street (one of the only ones left!) is $10 bucks! But at $10, it still has articles written by employees rather than just reader submissions, and it's printed - not digital.

$2 per month - don't even have to think about it, one. $5 per month - would probably still do it, but $9 - that's a lot of scratch for a forum that is primarily contributor driven. I understand the costs associated, but content is generally free and done by members, unless people are getting paid to post and I've just been doing it wrong, lol.

I was going to ask - if someone upgrades their membership prior to 12/31, they get a permanent "Founder" title - but if they cancel their VIP membership, do they keep it, but just lose access to the VIP features? Seems odd, but titles never meant much to me. Hell I can't even figure out the rankings there are now or what they are supposed to insinuate.

 

[martymil]

There is much more to making a successful forum than having members and vendors, otherwise this site wouldn't be here.

If you feel there is something unfair please be specific. Tell me exactly what is in the VIP room right now or typed of threads that could be there in the future that you feel is unfair.

If there is a collection of cat photos we keep in there, will people be upset?

I totally disagree, members and vendors can make or brake a website period.

Yes how it's operated and moderated plays a role too.

Locking people out of certain sections of the website for financial gain is just greedy in general.

Do a mandatory poll and I think the results would be not to your liking, i could be wrong but i don't think so. Seen this a lot of times.

For 8 bucks a month I can get Netflix, you can't compare spoolstreet to that in terms of content.

I think your reaching.

There is other ways to generate income.

 

[Torgus]

.

I totally understand the idea of a premium membership, and I may still at one point upgrade my account, but I just don't see the value right now relative to a regular membership. I probably shouldn't say that, because it's just more incentive to make more things require an upgraded membership.

I'll be honest, I would rather it be free and have ads on the sides of the page. I know that is anathema to your desire for advertiser independence Tyler, but I think subscription only works in the 2 edges of the bell curve - i.e. niche markets like Digitalpoint - a forum with a limited number of users but willing to pay since it's business focused, or something like Experts Exchange. On the other end, you have things like Spotify or Apple Music that are inexpensive because they scale to the millions of users. I have a number of subscription services, among them:

Plex (lifetime) $5/month or $120 lifetime
Media Center Master (lifetime) $4/month or $60 lifetime
Spotify (wife's) $10/month
Amazon Prime (annual) $13/month or $120/yr
Dollar Shave Club (well, just canceled it, but their Shave butter is FANTASTIC!) $6/month
Motor Trend Network $5/month
Netflix $11/month

I find that each of these services provide enough value to justify their price. Perhaps there will be new features to justify $9/month for Spoolstreet, but it's a hard sell at that price. I have quit purchasing magazines because of their increased cost - I think Super Street (one of the only ones left!) is $10 bucks! But at $10, it still has articles written by employees rather than just reader submissions, and it's printed - not digital.

$2 per month - don't even have to think about it, one. $5 per month - would probably still do it, but $9 - that's a lot of scratch for a forum that is primarily contributor driven. I understand the costs associated, but content is generally free and done by members, unless people are getting paid to post and I've just been doing it wrong, lol.

I was going to ask - if someone upgrades their membership prior to 12/31, they get a permanent "Founder" title - but if they cancel their VIP membership, do they keep it, but just lose access to the VIP features? Seems odd, but titles never meant much to me. Hell I can't even figure out the rankings there are now or what they are supposed to insinuate.

Very good post. Explains my feelings as well. I thought I was being a cheap ass which I am perfectly fine with, but it's too close to Netflix & Prime which gives me a TON of content. More than I can consume. I dont even know if I would pay $2 if all I get is a chatroom with you hosers For $9 I better be able to reign down fire on someone

As Tyler said if people want to pay great if not whatever it can always be adjusted to what the market will bear etc.

Nice to see the forum evolving either way. I think if the rankings and rep system meant more it might incentivize people more. Edit: to go on the rep system should help self police users so moderators are needed less. I understand the fear of silence by the majority but I would argue 99% of the time people are correct in their negative reps. Except when a certain few people go on neg rep sprees. *cough*

 

[doublespaces]

I totally understand the idea of a premium membership, and I may still at one point upgrade my account, but I just don't see the value right now relative to a regular membership. I probably shouldn't say that, because it's just more incentive to make more things require an upgraded membership.

I'll be honest, I would rather it be free and have ads on the sides of the page. I know that is anathema to your desire for advertiser independence Tyler, but I think subscription only works in the 2 edges of the bell curve - i.e. niche markets like Digitalpoint - a forum with a limited number of users but willing to pay since it's business focused, or something like Experts Exchange. On the other end, you have things like Spotify or Apple Music that are inexpensive because they scale to the millions of users. I have a number of subscription services, among them:

Plex (lifetime) $5/month or $120 lifetime
Media Center Master (lifetime) $4/month or $60 lifetime
Spotify (wife's) $10/month
Amazon Prime (annual) $13/month or $120/yr
Dollar Shave Club (well, just canceled it, but their Shave butter is FANTASTIC!) $6/month
Motor Trend Network $5/month
Netflix $11/month

I find that each of these services provide enough value to justify their price. Perhaps there will be new features to justify $9/month for Spoolstreet, but it's a hard sell at that price. I have quit purchasing magazines because of their increased cost - I think Super Street (one of the only ones left!) is $10 bucks! But at $10, it still has articles written by employees rather than just reader submissions, and it's printed - not digital.

$2 per month - don't even have to think about it, one. $5 per month - would probably still do it, but $9 - that's a lot of scratch for a forum that is primarily contributor driven. I understand the costs associated, but content is generally free and done by members, unless people are getting paid to post and I've just been doing it wrong, lol.

I was going to ask - if someone upgrades their membership prior to 12/31, they get a permanent "Founder" title - but if they cancel their VIP membership, do they keep it, but just lose access to the VIP features? Seems odd, but titles never meant much to me. Hell I can't even figure out the rankings there are now or what they are supposed to insinuate.

I was out at dinner when I got this notification and my phone died before I could submit a reply.

This is an incredibly useful feedback. Firstly, the VIP system was not ready for release. It was only halfway complete and its not like I sat down, took the pricing model to the board of directors and we all voted on it and this is what its going to be or damn everyone... This was quite literally a placeholder value and while I was testing the upgrade feature someone actually bought it (@LoBoost) so I figured it was a place to start. As I stated prior, if its not, then I'm not against adjusting it until the price and value meet in the middle, its simple economics. Its much more lucrative to have 500 people paying $3-4 bucks than 10 people paying 10 bucks.

I think as you guys see the master plan a bit more you'll find more value in what has already be proposed in terms of feature list. I'd like to continue to take feedback on what someone thinks a VIP membership should be priced at because the price given has had little to no thought put into it. I see some people are getting their panties twisted a little bit over it and that is good in my opinion. I WANT you guys to take this as personal as me because my intention is to make this the best place possible for everyone, not a draconian, corporate money grab that only I can enjoy... I'm not Electronic Arts, okay?

Speaking of money grabs,

Locking people out of certain sections of the website for financial gain is just greedy in general.

You're beginning to sound entitled, but first let me point out I've asked you a question and you refuse to answer, so I'll consider your input null until you do. You are acting like I'm trying to be mean to you or something, why? You talk about other websites and your poor experience there, why in the world would I want to make this site like that, whatever it is? So please, enlighten me and give me an example of what type of thread inside the VIP area "locked away" from the eyes of the non-paying, would be unfair? You are incapable of telling me for a reason that frankly perplexes me. But once you do give me an example, most likely I'll say fine, that won't be allowed. And I will ask you, is that it? And then it won't be unfair anymore, will it? So @martymil please tell me, what would be unfair, help me make it fair, ball in your court. My door is open all day for debate, but you need to convince me with actual points, present a real case. You have not convinced me a private forum is unfair in the slightest. You have no idea what is going to be allowed in that private forum, that is how I know you're entirely off-base to make this claim. I don't even know what will be allowed in there yet, so how can you?

 

[LoBoost]

@doublespaces I've got no problems paying 9$ a month or however much it is that I signed up for. I'm betting that running this board has probably costed you a good bit out of pocket. I visit this site day, and you guys all have taught me a lot! I use this site a lot more than I use Netflix, Philo, etc. and I pay more for those services, so 9$ a month doesn't seem outrageous to me. I'm happy to be able to help out.

 

[doublespaces]

@doublespaces I've got no problems paying 9$ a month or however much it is that I signed up for. I'm betting that running this board has probably costed you a good bit out of pocket. I visit this site day, and you guys all have taught me a lot! I use this site a lot more than I use Netflix, Philo, etc. and I pay more for those services, so 9$ a month doesn't seem outrageous to me. I'm happy to be able to help out.

I appreciate that very much.

It seems that people have different opinions here in terms of what they feel is justifiable and that is understandable. One thing I had explored initially was a "pay what you want" method. I think I may switch to that sort of model because it may be a better fit.

As far as a premium membership being unfair somehow, I'm going to ignore that comment until I get more feedback on that because it's impossible to make adjustments without more specifics.

This evening I will make that change, so for anyone who would like to readjust their payment let me know and I'd be happy to make it something that you are happy with.

 

[martymil]

I feel entitled maybe I'm, maybe I'm not dont try and think you know me, your asking me what I think its worth hmm how about $0 but i though you could judge that the way I answered your previous questions.

Your members and vendors made your board without them you have nothing

I understand you have costs so advertise and charge for it, charge the people that make money through advertising their products and make actual money of it on your website

Dont take this as an insult its my view.

All your website members should have equal rights and privileges except the moderators

You already said it, that vip will have extra privileges.

Why should someone have that and not someone that cant afford it, what makes someone better than the other just becouse they can pay.

I love how you guys think that everyone is trying to attack you, take criticism as its given to bad if it hurts.

 

[doublespaces]

All your website members should have equal rights and privileges except the moderators

I get frustrated when people complain and don't give good or even decent examples of their problem. That is usually because they don't have a very good idea of how to solve the problem. You apparently have this concept that everyone on the board should be equal no matter what. Well guess what, how about I take back all the stuff I'm rolling out for VIP members, and we'll just do that because you want everyone to be equal.

Everyone is refunded and VIP program is over until marty stops being a baby. If he can't have it, nobody can. This equality bullshit is really amazing, god forbid I have you bitching about the VIP program for the coming years...

EDIT: Refunds have been processed. If I somehow missed someone send me a PM.

 

[martymil]

I'm not being a baby dude treat, try and understand.

All members should be equal no matter their financial standing thats it, nothing more nothing less

 

[doublespaces]

I'm not being a baby dude treat, try and understand.

All members should be equal no matter their financial standing thats it, nothing more nothing less

Okay man, you know everything. Like I said, everyone has been refunded and downgraded back to normal members, I was going to lose money doing that anyway.

 

[martymil]

Now who is being a baby with their you taken away.

 

[doublespaces]

Now who is being a baby with their you taken away.

I'm doing what YOU think is best. Lets ride this for a while and see if the community is better off because of it. What I won't be doing is enabling Google Ads for logged in members either. I think the site is nice and clean without them and I'm keeping it that way.

 

[martymil]

I run a multi million dollar business and if i want to advertise my services I pay for them and have no problem paying for it.

If i can make money of it, i will pay and people understand thats how the world runs these days

So i know a little about business and how it works

Im just standing up for the little man thats always seems to get treaded on by big business.

 

[doublespaces]

I run a multi million dollar business and if i want to advertise my services I pay for them and have no problem paying for it.

If i can make money of it, i will pay and people understand thats how the world runs these days

So i know a little about business and how it works

Im just standing up for the little man thats always seems to get treaded on by big business.

But as you can see, there is no little man that got treaded on here. No VIP, no extras. The little man in this case has gained and lost nothing by the VIP program existing or not existing. The only thing that has happened is now every other person who wanted the upgrade can't have one and the ceiling for the forum has gone down.

I find it interesting that you believe that people should be equal no matter what their contribution, that is called communism, Utopia perhaps? Using your logic, you shouldn't be allowed to pay for advertising unless everyone else can afford it. I have accolades but no sense shouting them here. But let me ask you, how many websites have you administered in your life? You know, an apples to apples comparison.

 

[martymil]

Now this is a discussion I can have in a civilized manner.

Lets say some cant afford to pay but contribute more to your website than the ones that can afford it but dont contribute at all, should they be worse off ?

I think you will find you would get more respect by treating people equally and thats what makes this website great, everyone plays on a level playing field

There was a Facebook group that use to be free and they started to charge for events, overnight a number of members left and started their own group and within 24 hrs they had over 800 members that thought the same and within a week had more members than the previous group had to begin with. If that's not people talking I dont know what is.

I dont think I know it all but I've seen enough over the years to know what works

 

[doublespaces]

Now this is a discussion I can have in a civilized manner.

Lets say some cant afford to pay but contribute more to your website than the ones that can afford it but dont contribute at all, should they be worse off ?

Worse off, define worse off? What you are saying, is that I am not allowed to go Ebay, and buy more products there then other members....Because they can't afford it? That makes absolutely no sense at all. What about the people who don't want to pay and don't contribute either, they should get the same benefits as people who do all the contributing and pay money?

Also Marty, we have a credit system on the board, allowing people to buy a VIP membership using credits, something earned by participating with the forum. It was one of the main reasons for rolling out the VIP membership. It encourages participation in a way that the giveaways never could.

I think you will find you would get more respect by treating people equally and thats what makes this website great, everyone plays on a level playing field

There was a Facebook group that use to be free and they started to charge for events, overnight a number of members left and started their own group and within 24 hrs they had over 800 members that thought the same and within a week had more members than the previous group had to begin with. If that's not people talking I dont know what is.

I dont think I know it all but I've seen enough over the years to know what works

Facebook is full of drama and trash, when you start charging people for the main product or service, of course they are going to go to an alternative where the main service is now free. If you think that is even remotely close to being a parallel to this situation, then I know you are off-base and haven't really given a chance to understand it first. I am willing to consider all scenarios and make things as fair as possible, you simply hadn't given me any examples until now. And I can safely say, the main draw, the primary service or product will not be a charged for asset. What other concerns do you have?

 

[martymil]

You never stated that you could buy membership with the credit system, or this i miss something from the first post until your last.

That makes the discussion different from what I read its was for financial gain from the begining.

 

[doublespaces]

You never stated that you could buy membership with the credit system, or this i miss something from the first post until your last.

That makes the discussion different.

Well, you can't, not yet. What about the guy who only makes one or two really good posts but not enough posting to earn the VIP membership, what about that poor sap? We should tear down the house because he can't get in? Who sets the bar for how many credits it takes, and what about all those people who don't generate enough?

At some point you have to just come to terms with the fact that not everyone is going to have the same thing as everyone else. But, the more people contribute or pay the more they will get, at least those two options will exist. Additionally, none of the features will be critical items, I'm not an asshole or a greedy fuck. I'm talking about improved feature set, things not normally found on a forum. For example, these are conversation/Private Message folders. This is not something you will get on a normal message board:

Here is another perk for VIP, automatic light/dark theme switcher. It will switch to the dark theme automatically at night time so you aren't blinded when you're browsing in bed. This is something I've already paid to have completed so there is no un-doing that no matter the outcome here:

 

[LoBoost]

I cant afford a McLaren 720s (jk I can lol) but by the above logic simply because others can afford one, I should be entitled to one for free!

I'm going to head down to the McLaren dealership and plead my case, maybe they will understand and give me one for free.

Sarcasm aside, here are my .02

-TONS of forums have VIP lounges for contributors. This is nothing new.

-You are on an enthusiast website that caters to expensive modifications on German cars. Odds are, if you are here you have a little extra money to burn.

-If you are that passionate about how this site is run, why cant you be passionate about helping to support it?

-You came to this site on your own free will. No one is FORCING you to buy ANYTHING.

-I'm sure that if some revolutionary information was posted in a VIP section that @doublespaces would make pertinent information available to all.

Stop looking at this as financial segregation. I see it as nothing more than a way to support the site. The "perks" of being a supporter are merely a way to give back to those that help out.