FREE CUSTOM MAPS

[Twisted Tuning]

Yes, poorly phrased. I was more trying to rebutt the people exclaiming that anyone looking for information on how to tune their car them-self is just a cheap ass. Many people don't even know where to find where the xdf is hosted. I lost the link a while ago myself.

I added the part about how what OP is doing is just flat out wrong. This is not how you go about helping people using the knowledge you've gained. You don't just go releasing other people's notes and bins on the subject. And, it's not ethical, in my eyes, to go charging people for tunes which are basically just copies of other peoples work that they shared with you. That is completely different than helping someone re-scale a table or something.

No one [should] "except" you to teach them to tune, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to help each other learn how to do it either, right? Big difference. I am responding to the people saying "just go pay a tuner to do it for you" instead of simply linking people to places they can go to learn. How are those people helping anyone? Well they do help you I suppose lol (no offense).

"This community is literally given the tables needed to tune cars. For free."

Yes, and if the answer that people always get when they ask for those tables is "just pay someone to do it for you" then where is that ever going to get us? That's my point.

The XDF's......

Google "N54 public XDF". Its literally almost always the very first hit. and its also on here as well if you use the search function.

I think peoples definitions of "HELP" span a rather large spectrum. Because people are "HELPED" quite often on this forum and many others. For exacmple, someone happens to ask "Why is my car pulling timing?". Someone looks at the log ans says something to the effect of "looks like the timing is a bit too aggressive for the fuel, should probably reduce timing"

thats helping, but people want the response to be like this "Reduce timing target to 7degfrom 5000-7000rpms, blend spool at timing with main timing at 3500rpms starting at 100load and rescale axis blah blah blah"

everyone has free will to tune or not to tune their car, as well as find the resources and schooling to do so or not. No one is obligated tuner or non tuner to hold someones hand through the entire process. Especially considering just how much help is given in this community as is.

Dude, when I first entered the service I sold my Z28 and bought a new 93' white GSX, I should have never sold that car but it was way too much for an E3 salary, lol. My best friend at the time had a same color Talon TSI and we used to cruise Virginia Beach beating up on 5.0's.

haha, yes i think im going to get one when i find the perfect one. that and an FD due to the rarity.

Afc? Y'all are to high tech for me. We rock drag gen2 stage 3 turbos on b16s with an FMU, and tweak fox body fueling by twisting the MAF!

ha....twisting the MAF....ohhh the memories, lol

 

[Jake@MHD]

Many people don't even know where to find where the xdf is hosted. I lost the link a while ago myself.

https://github.com/dmacpro91/bmw-xdfs

It's been in every update post I ever make, as well as all the FF "instruction" posts. Maybe @doublespaces can pin this link somewhere visible?

 

[fmorelli]

Many people don't even know where to find where the xdf is hosted. I lost the link a while ago myself.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bmw+xdf

I can't take comments like the above seriously. If someone doesn't have the brain space to do a Google search (where the top 3 hits give you the forum discussions and Github), then frankly that someone doesn't give two shits enough. Somehow in this country we need to stop pandering to the least common denominator. Cripes ...

Filippo

 

[bahn]

Lets not get hateful guys, that's what separates this forum from the others.

 

[Rob09msport]

Not for nothing but it's really hard for respected tuners to help sometimes. First you have people with agenda that try and learn and then turn around and start selling tunes which is whatever free world right. The real problem comes when everyone is so quick to point fingers and start saying my car was perfect cooked dinner and baby sat my kids but now thanks to xxxxx my car Is worthless. Attitudes like that really create a lose lose situation for people trying to help.

 

[Optigrab]

Not for nothing but it's really hard for respected tuners to help sometimes. First you have people with agenda that try and learn and then turn around and start selling tunes which is whatever free world right. The real problem comes when everyone is so quick to point fingers and start saying my car was perfect cooked dinner and baby sat my kids but now thanks to xxxxx my car Is worthless. Attitudes like that really create a lose lose situation for people trying to help.

If you are claiming to be a tuner and taking someone's hard earned money(payment for services)
that's not helping out. You are running a business and no one should have to bite their tongue about services they pay for. If you take someone's money your ass is fair game. You better be able to tune, troubleshoot, advise and do customer service.

It's very telling that there is a never ending line of people complaining about tunerx on the forum, who learned to tune by blowing up his own car. But he is good now he learned from his mistakes and people on the forum like him. The pros care about their reputation, business and their customers, that is why you don't see posts that real tuner blew up my car. People lying about being a tuner and customers not doing the proper research create a lose lose situation. If someone came here and complained that they let someone with no experience tune their car for free and blew it up. They would probably be laughed off the forum. If you call yourself a tuner and take customers money everything changes you are not just helping out.

 

[matreyia]

If you are claiming to be a tuner and taking someone's hard earned money(payment for services)
that's not helping out. You are running a business and no one should have to bite their tongue about services they pay for. If you take someone's money your ass is fair game. You better be able to tune, troubleshoot, advise and do customer service.

It's very telling that there is a never ending line of people complaining about tunerx on the forum, who learned to tune by blowing up his own car. But he is good now he learned from his mistakes and people on the forum like him. The pros care about their reputation, business and their customers, that is why you don't see posts that real tuner blew up my car. People lying about being a tuner and customers not doing the proper research create a lose lose situation. If someone came here and complained that they let someone with no experience tune their car for free and blew it up. They would probably be laughed off the forum. If you call yourself a tuner and take customers money everything changes you are not just helping out.

The worst is when a tuner does not listen to your reports or says, "that's just the way your car is dude." and doesn't even try to figure out the problem. I'm so over that shit. Replace this, replace that...then you do it, then it's "oh that's jus the way your car is dude..." Whatever dude.

 

[fmorelli]

The other issue, though, is that tuners deal with crap all the time that's not what one paid them for. My tuner has, in spite of the fact that I've done everything I can to shield him from it (hindsight is 20/20). I can't imagine delivering the service to people that think their tuner is also supposed to be their mechanic, their mod buddy, et cetera.

Filippo

 

[matreyia]

The other issue, though, is that tuners deal with crap all the time that's not what one paid them for. My tuner has, in spite of the fact that I've done everything I can to shield him from it (hindsight is 20/20). I can't imagine delivering the service to people that think their tuner is also supposed to be their mechanic, their mod buddy, et cetera.

Filippo

Even as your car may have recent new parts...a shitty tuner may say you need to replace it again...and you do and he still can't make it run smooth.

Then you go to the next tuner amd that guy makes the car run smooth on the 1st try....that's when you know many these people are actually learning using your car as the mule. And they blow shit up hiding behind their disclaimers. Too many stories to ignore. It's aggrevating.

 

[Rob09msport]

If you are claiming to be a tuner and taking someone's hard earned money(payment for services)
that's not helping out. You are running a business and no one should have to bite their tongue about services they pay for. If you take someone's money your ass is fair game. You better be able to tune, troubleshoot, advise and do customer service.

It's very telling that there is a never ending line of people complaining about tunerx on the forum, who learned to tune by blowing up his own car. But he is good now he learned from his mistakes and people on the forum like him. The pros care about their reputation, business and their customers, that is why you don't see posts that real tuner blew up my car. People lying about being a tuner and customers not doing the proper research create a lose lose situation. If someone came here and complained that they let someone with no experience tune their car for free and blew it up. They would probably be laughed off the forum. If you call yourself a tuner and take customers money everything changes you are not just helping out.

You misunderstood me. My point was it goes both ways cause people cry they need help and leave out important facts and or don't follow advice perfectly then are very quick to point finger. The experienced tuners know better and deal with bs all the time. And yes when you charge for a product you have to deal with customer service and so on but you don't have to provide additional services for free which is expected. Why is it ok for a client to have a car diagnosed for free then have to start over in revisions? But If tuner said no and asked for more money for their wasted time then they have to worry about getting bashed for not being able to get car to run right and or whatever else anyone could think of to be victim. Problem is this doesnt apply to every situation so you can always argue the other side. But I'm sure their are times where tuner A finds problem car doesnt run right etc ,client disagrees says NO NOT MY CAR and tuner tunes as if said things were checked and are correct or they just cause issues. Client fixes issue and either saves face or doesnt want to admit fault for fear of paying more then later on another tuner starts from scratch and all goes well. Problem is when making a custom tune every variable matters and I just hope people realize how much they are getting for such little amount especially when they want to play blame game . A bad tune can blow your engine but shit can break on a stock tune to. Does that mean BMW sold you a shit tune, no it doesnt . My whole point of this rant is dont be so quick to point fingers and judge from both sides and that most of the respected tuners on this platform give alot for very little and it's wrong to make it seem like their getting rich and taking advantage when it's usually quite the opposite.

 

[impuls]

Am I the only one that thinks this load targets are a bit unsafe?

 

[Twisted Tuning]

Am I the only one that thinks this load targets are a bit unsafe?

View attachment 16531

Well that depends on a few things. one is whether or not the tune is scaled for 3.5/4.0bar tmap

What fuel and supporting mod and etc.

 

[impuls]

It's an unscaled FBO non-M-Boost tune.

Boost target will be only 18 PSI, but flat from 1200 to 6500 RPM.

Not sure at what RPM you will actually hit 18 PSI, but I never seen a tune such an aggressive target at low RPM.

Now I wonder: What boost levels are considered safe at different RPMs if you not want to bend rods?

 

[langsbr]

It's an unscaled FBO non-M-Boost tune.

Boost target will be only 18 PSI, but flat from 1200 to 6500 RPM.

Not sure at what RPM you will actually hit 18 PSI, but I never seen a tune such an aggressive target at low RPM.

Now I wonder: What boost levels are considered safe at different RPMs if you not want to bend rods?

Can the stock turbos even make enough torque to bend rods?

 

[impuls]

Can the stock turbos even make enough torque to bend rods?

I don't know, don't wat to find out either.

Maybe @V8bait can comment. My assumption that we should limit load / torque even on stockers at load RPM was based on seeing how caregully he did ramp up load in the base map he published long ago.

Just looked at a few more tunes and it seems mist don't target more than 180 load below 2500 RPM.

 

[impuls]

Seeing exactly same Load Targets in another tune actually made me wonder what those "free maps" are...
Left is what @DaddyBoost published and right is the MHD map leaked maybe 1-2 years ago.

So much for evil tuners ripping of poor customers....

 

[langsbr]

I don't know, don't wat to find out either.

Maybe @V8bait can comment. My assumption that we should limit load / torque even on stockers at load RPM was based on seeing how caregully he did ramp up load in the base map he published long ago.

Just looked at a few more tunes and it seems mist don't target more than 180 load below 2500 RPM.

My point was - you could target max load, and 30 psi, but if the turbos can't hit it as that rpm, is it really a big deal?

 

[Twisted Tuning]

It's an unscaled FBO non-M-Boost tune.

Boost target will be only 18 PSI, but flat from 1200 to 6500 RPM.

Not sure at what RPM you will actually hit 18 PSI, but I never seen a tune such an aggressive target at low RPM.

Now I wonder: What boost levels are considered safe at different RPMs if you not want to bend rods?

Can the stock turbos even make enough torque to bend rods?

My point was - you could target max load, and 30 psi, but if the turbos can't hit it as that rpm, is it really a big deal?

@impuls yea, i wouldn't know whats posted. as i haven't and wont even look. no point in me looking. So thats why i posted what i said.

@impuls @langsbr yes, the Stock turbos can make enough torque down low to bend rods. You can make in upwards of 550tq close to 600tq on stock turbos abrubtly and long enough to hurt the engine. Some time ago just as a test i ran 30psi on stock turbos. Of course they don't sustain that up top. But the quick hit of torque can break or hurt an engine. Stock turbos realistically shouldn't be run much past 22-23psi if that. Definitely not for long periods of time at least.

So yes, the stock turbos can every bit of make 30psi for s short stint. a short stint is all you need though to hurt an engine if something isn't right.

 

[matreyia]

You misunderstood me. My point was it goes both ways cause people cry they need help and leave out important facts and or don't follow advice perfectly then are very quick to point finger. The experienced tuners know better and deal with bs all the time. And yes when you charge for a product you have to deal with customer service and so on but you don't have to provide additional services for free which is expected. Why is it ok for a client to have a car diagnosed for free then have to start over in revisions? But If tuner said no and asked for more money for their wasted time then they have to worry about getting bashed for not being able to get car to run right and or whatever else anyone could think of to be victim. Problem is this doesnt apply to every situation so you can always argue the other side. But I'm sure their are times where tuner A finds problem car doesnt run right etc ,client disagrees says NO NOT MY CAR and tuner tunes as if said things were checked and are correct or they just cause issues. Client fixes issue and either saves face or doesnt want to admit fault for fear of paying more then later on another tuner starts from scratch and all goes well. Problem is when making a custom tune every variable matters and I just hope people realize how much they are getting for such little amount especially when they want to play blame game . A bad tune can blow your engine but shit can break on a stock tune to. Does that mean BMW sold you a shit tune, no it doesnt . My whole point of this rant is dont be so quick to point fingers and judge from both sides and that most of the respected tuners on this platform give alot for very little and it's wrong to make it seem like their getting rich and taking advantage when it's usually quite the opposite.

What would you think if one tuner couldn't make your car run smooth after 12 revisions and when you switch to the next tuner, he gets it right on the first try running smoothly?

I am really curious as you are constantly defending tuners and not owners and assuming that owners are at fault in your examples. WHAT IF an owner had a healthy car to begin with and the tuner just could not get it right and the next one did off the bat????

Surely there are idiot owners looking for the cheapest opportunity who have some idealized scenario in their heads that involve their car perfectly tuned even though they are cheapskates who don't want to maintain their cars...the wannabe boys who think they are the shit just because they drive a BMW. I get that... but it is the responsible ocd owners who trust tuners and get unusable tunes that I am referring to.

 

[langsbr]

So yes, the stock turbos can every bit of make 30psi for s short stint. a short stint is all you need though to hurt an engine if something isn't right.

One thing to consider is that Dean/RFP is at a high altitude and a good number of his customers are as well. I know he's run full E85 at high boost making >500whp (corrected of course) which I didn't think would be possible on just the HPFP at sea level.

Taking the elevation into consideration, is it still possible to make that much boost at low rpms?