Technical FrankenTurbo F21Bi Turbo Upgrade

[doublespaces]

? That you think I am trying to sway blind Frankenturbo supporters you have no idea why I would make a technical post. Its to educate the masses that are mostly ignorant to turbocharger theory, yourself included. The insults were justified as Doug is a proven liar. Calling him one is more of a statement of facts than a jab. But hey whatever...

I think poorly of all hybrid turbos I've seen over the years and is the reason I have never and will never own a set. Perhaps that is changing with time but this entire argument is irrelevant to me from a personal standpoint. This thread is being moderated in accordance to some very basic forum rules I'm attempting to deploy to this board, no matter whose products or what I think of those companies.

 

[fmorelli]

When I originally saw this image posted, I was completely confounded by the channel that crossed the coolant area (marked "wtf" in Tony's marked up version of the original image). I couldn't figure out what the heck that was doing there. Can anyone simply explain how this works?

Filippo

 

[Tony@VargasTurboTech]

View attachment 8496

When I originally saw this image posted, I was completely confounded by the channel that crossed the coolant area (marked "wtf" in Tony's marked up version of the original image). I couldn't figure out what the heck that was doing there. Can anyone simply explain how this works?

Filippo

That is one of the main points of my post if you read it. It would not work, this would dump oil not only into the water jacket, causing cross contamination, but also behind the turbine side piston ring causing smoking, and extreme oil leaks. That he included this in his marketing photos shows a true lack of understanding of how a turbocharger works, and is extremely scary for anyone considering his products.

 

[fmorelli]

I'm wondering if Doug or any of the other people that are proponents of these can explain it. Seems like a simple enough and fair question.

Filippo

 

[Tony@VargasTurboTech]

I'm wondering if Doug or any of the other people that are proponents of these can explain it. Seems like a simple enough and fair question.

Filippo

I agree, we await his explanation. My guess is a lot of deflection, and false info. We will see

 

[The Convert]

I'm wondering if Doug or any of the other people that are proponents of these can explain it. Seems like a simple enough and fair question.

Filippo

There is nothing to explain. Tony already stated exactly what it is and why it is bad.

 

[Tony@VargasTurboTech]

There is nothing to explain. Tony already stated exactly what it is and why it is bad.

I am more interested in how he is going to try to explain away how he completely prepared marketing photos attacking our turbo features, while revealing serious design flaws in his own. We won’t even dwell on how his points are incorrect. The main thing I am curious about is he did that while not realizing he posted information so damning about his own products. This is a serious backfire, and could only happen if you really have no idea what you are looking at.

 

[cloud9blue]

To cut through the BS, here is my takeaway

- The water jacket issue is really a non-issue. Comparison by both vendors are misleading and invalid since they each show the different cross section of the CHRAs. A real comparison would be the actual volume of the coolant passage around the CHRA.

- F21Bi (what does this even mean? Failure #21? Female-21 year old-bisexual?) turbo has larger journal bearing surface comparing to the stock or VTT. Whether is it one "unibody" journal or two separate one doesn't really matter, as long as the turbine shaft is well supported at both ends.

- VTT thrust bearing is a better design, at least on paper. Tony is right about that. Notches on the bearing surface isn't gonna do jack shit if there isn't enough oil there to begin with.

- LOL, why is the coolant passage cutting through an oil feed!!! If I want chocolate milk shake, I can just go to DQ.

- All in all, both vendors have a long history of false marketing and outright lies. You are better off by spending your money else where.

 

[mikeseli]

View attachment 8496

When I originally saw this image posted, I was completely confounded by the channel that crossed the coolant area (marked "wtf" in Tony's marked up version of the original image). I couldn't figure out what the heck that was doing there. Can anyone simply explain how this works?

Filippo

It is not an oil feed. You can clearly see a step at that location. The saw being used created this. I think they were cutting with a metal cutting blade instead of a wheel.

 

[Tony@VargasTurboTech]

You mean when he was cutting his bearing housing in a different spot than the others in the photos so he could present his deceptive marketing about water jacket size? You must mean when he was doing that. Funny, he still hasn’t shown up. We never expected him to. He has ignored the hard questions of people for two years. He posts BS data leaving tons of questions, and ignores them. Then his next post is another BS data set, where he ignores more questions. How literally anyone could buy this persons BS marketing or products is baffling to legit businesses

 

[cloud9blue]

I think you are right. Hack job on the saw. You can see the tool marks on the darker grey area line up with that line.

So basically they cut their own CHRAs at a different angle for the water jacket, so to show more cross sectional area. This is misleading as hell.

 

[Boosted_135]

I think we should just all buy Tonys turbos.

 

[doublespaces]

I think we should just all buy Tonys turbos.

Lets keep this on topic please, technical discussion for or against or related to the FrankenTurbo F21

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

It is also a bit curious as to the journal bearing picture comparison as it seems the FT single bearing is a larger OD than the TD03 JB's it's next to, however the x-section views seem to indicate that the JB OD's are all uniform in these TD03 Centersections. So it begs the question: Is the FT "single JB" (as pictured as a comparison) the actual production unit?

Rob

 

[mikeseli]

You mean when he was cutting his bearing housing in a different spot than the others in the photos so he could present his deceptive marketing about water jacket size? You must mean when he was doing that. Funny, he still hasn’t shown up. We never expected him to. He has ignored the hard questions of people for two years. He posts BS data leaving tons of questions, and ignores them. Then his next post is another BS data set, where he ignores more questions. How literally anyone could buy this persons BS marketing or products is baffling to legit businesses

Tony, they are all cut a pretty much the same location. This is apparent to a trained eye. Sure they may be off by a mm or two but other than that, this is good for what it shows.

It is also a bit curious as to the journal bearing picture comparison as it seems the FT single bearing is a larger OD than the TD03 JB's it's next to, however the x-section views seem to indicate that the JB OD's are all uniform in these TD03 Centersections. So it begs the question: Is the FT "single JB" (as pictured as a comparison) the actual production unit?

Rob

This cutout you are seeing is before the center journal bearing hole is reamed to spec to accept the 1 piece journal bearing. I'm sure Doug will confirm this. That is a good eye you have there Rob.

 

[ChrisNeil5]

If we are talking someone shooting themselves in the foot. Posting photos that clearly show you cut the housing in different spots to manipulate the appearance of the water jacket size, while also posting photos of your thrust from an angle that does not show the oiling holes to try to make your single feed thrust appear like it is superior to a dual feed thrust. This is foot shooting 101, and also what many would call misleading, and deceptive marketing, while accidentally making your product look inferior when someone with actual knowledge can point out the flaws in your deception, and products. Take it as you will. I just destroyed Dougs “tech” using his own photos.

Tony the oil feed line you're referring to is where the cross section cut ends and another begins , there is no.oil feed cutting through the water jacket in the turbos , give it a rest bud , it's just competition don't take it so personal, this is just the beginning , there's going to be more in this game , zage turbos will continue to sell you yours , China will continue to sell all the other guys there's , relax and go and enjoy a beer and focus on your business

View attachment 8496

When I originally saw this image posted, I was completely confounded by the channel that crossed the coolant area (marked "wtf" in Tony's marked up version of the original image). I couldn't figure out what the heck that was doing there. Can anyone simply explain how this works?

Filippo

It's where he sectioned the turbo aka cut it in half , one blade cut one way and another the other way, I have these turbos and trust me coolant and oil feed lines don't touch each other, grasping at straws to try to destroy the competition, maybe he try to improve his customer service instead, or let Chris take his keyboard from him

I think we should just all buy Tonys turbos.

No thanks , I'll.buy my own zage turbos lol

 

[Lukecrab3]

https://bmw.spoolstreet.com/threads/frankenturbo-failure.4360/

 

[Roll up or pull up]

As for his "AWESOME" Turbos. Congrats Doug, you are using single journal bearings in your MHI turbos. MHI did it 20+ years ago in ONE MODEL the TC04. Where is the TC04 now? It's in the garbage can, one, and done. They scraped it, why? Because it was failure prone and did not work well. Guess what ALL MHI turbos have come with since, and still. Twin Journal bearings. Why? I will let people with common sense figure that out. So you have now "updated" your turbos with 20-year-old tech, that the actual manufacture scaped because it was garbage, and your big selling point after that is let's wait for it, drum roll, please. Water Jackets..... Man, you cannot make this stuff up. You really can't Doug, do this.

Next we will address those thrust bearings. Since you have never actually built a turbocharger, and have limited knowledge of them, it is not surprising you have taken a factory TD04 thrust with a single oiling hole, and actually made it worse than it was stock. Thats not easy to do, and you have accomplished that. That you want to put two thrusts side by side, and try to make people believe the thrust with the single oiling hole is superior to the thrust that provides twice the oil volume to the one place in a turbocharger where oil volume is abssolutely critical, and is the main factor in keeping a turbocharger alive shows me you truly have no idea what you are doing. You are basically trying to sell people on bullshit fake news, and “upgrades” you did. Same way you tried to sell everyone your bullshit data sets.

Do us all a favor. Once you have anything resembling a real set of results, please share them with us all. I know, I know in 2 years it's hard to get those pesky results. But hey, maybe you will get them one day.



See you on the other side, Doug.

Wow that was a FATALITY

 

[The Convert]

Wow that was a FATALITY

Why are you responding to OLD ass threads??? Look at the dates man.

 

[Roll up or pull up]

Why are you responding to OLD ass threads??? Look at the dates man.

Old so what!? I just saw this and spoke my mind! That was a FATALITY! I'm researching twin turbo n54 upgrades and came across this... chill out!