DIY: F30 M Performance Brakes on E90 E92 E93 Guide
- Thread starter doublespaces
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Neither, I wasn't aware that the E60 rotor offset was different, so I had them machined down to 12mm like the F30 rotors require. So now I'm stuck hunting for washers, in fact to get the perfect alignment I've currently got 25mm diameter and 30mm diameter M10 washers with 1.5mm thickness on the way from the UK... The driver side liked the 4.4mm washer stack, the passenger side is even tighter for some reason or another, perhaps a variance in the rotor or the timesert, I'm not sure. But 2.8mm was not quite enough and 4.4mm was too much, so its somewhere in the middle. I can run it on the 2.8mm but its so close I wanted to try 3.0-3.3 or so and see if it was slightly better to compensate for things shifting later on.
See this post:
https://bmw.spoolstreet.com/threads/f30-m-performance-brakes-on-e90-e92-e93-guide.2941/#post-34119
In my opinion, the proper way to do this is to have the ECS style bracket made and just go with the F30 rotors. That can get pricey though, so I'd try machining down to 15mm with the E60 rotor and see where that gets you. You should be in good shape to be honest. I'm super anal so I want it to be as perfect as possible.
@doublespaces Ok great! I will try that and see what happens. I ordered the timeserts, and I am a perfectionist and I want to do this just right, with minimal machining etc. I've had the rear F30 brakes just sitting at my shop forever, just been lazy I guess. Interested to see the difference after install and coding and a M3 master cylinder.
The guide has been updated to cover the front brakes.
I'd recommend using the official tap for fitting the time serts into the rotors. I'm not sure if it makes a difference, but its may part of the reason for my 'variance'. I ended up using a 3.15mm washer to make the right side fit well enough to not scrape. I have yet to put the car down on the ground but initial tests so far are good.
I'd recommend using the official tap for fitting the time serts into the rotors. I'm not sure if it makes a difference, but its may part of the reason for my 'variance'. I ended up using a 3.15mm washer to make the right side fit well enough to not scrape. I have yet to put the car down on the ground but initial tests so far are good.
I'm interested in a group buy also.
Does anyone have pics of what machining needs to be done to the caliper to mount these new brackets?
I'm pretty sure that part is included in the purchase of the brackets. But, it basically gets all cut off to make a nice spot for the brackets to mount.
I have the calipers here in Australia so would need to have them machined and drilled here. I'm mainly interested in getting hold of a set of brackets.
For Australians were probably better off buying pre machined callipers and adaptors or just asking a local shop to adapt them. Where are you from ?
I'm in Perth. I recently picked up a set of front and rear M Performance Blue calipers only.
I need to get the F30 front 370 rotors and the F30 345mm or E60 345mm rears. Would like to find slotted/drilled.
I believe the E60 have a better offset for these brakes. But that depends on what this bracket is designed specifically for.
So I guess it depends on how much $, and if they would sell rear machined calipers only with a set of brackets.
Maybe I can sell my rears and do that.
Where are you situated aus335iguy?
I’m in Sydney. I’ve done the fronts as I said. I’m lookinv for someone local that might be able to help
I have a set of new front M Performance rotors and pads.
Only thing is that shipping is going to be a killer...
http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1445508
For those that have been asking. Sorry we do not ship the bracket only, the calipers need to be machined in a certain way, so that must all be done in house by us. For those that are overseas, it might be a good idea to have you calipers sourced here in the USA and shipped directly to us. We can offer new rear calipers for the modification, but the cost on these is $700ea side. Most of the time you can find a complete kit for that price on Ebay or somewhere like that.
Seems like there is a lot of interest in the group buy. Is this something you are considering moving forward with?
Depends on the number of people that would be willing to get in on the group buy. We may do a mini group buy that would require at least 5 people and you would get 10% off which would be $450 for the service with return shipping included for US customers. In order to get the lower rate of $380 plus shipping we would need at least 15 people and we would need to coordinate it so that all calipers are here at the same time. The savings come from being able to run them all at the same time, which means less machine set-up time. The logistics of getting calipers from all 15 people at the same time might be a nightmare!
Okay, I have revised this guide as I've made some discoveries after setting the car down on the ground and driving a little bit.
First, with the E60 Zimmerman rotor, you may not need to machine the caliper AT ALL. Meaning, not the inside of the caliper well or the mounting tabs/ears. You'll just need to check for yourself as aftermarket rotors have a 1-3mm variance between them. I had my caliper ears machined for F30 rotors, and had to add so much spacer back I think I am at or around the stock ear dimensions. Other people have reported not needing to machine this tab with the E60 rotors, so that makes sense.
Second, I have not finished bleeding the brakes or bedding the pads, but I have noticed that the pad sweep is not centered on the rotor surface.
This is because while I did not need to elongate the knuckle since the rotor diameter is not as wide, the caliper sits closer to the center of the hub and it brings the pad with it:
The solutions to this:
1) Live with it
2) Elongate the knuckle and slide the rotor out
3) Replace caliper bushings with custom eccentric bushes with M10 threads
4) Go back to an F30 rotor and pursue the various options.
There are only three ways to have a correct sweep without elongating the knuckle:
A) Swap 1 series hub and use F30 rotor(Big big pain in the ass)
B) Purchase EOS/ECS style bracket and use F30 rotor(This is the best way to do it)
C) Use custom eccentric bushing in calipers
For anyone being cheap, you're going to have to live with it or use the eccentric bushing or elongate the knuckle.
I suggest to buy the EOS/ECS bracket as the ideal solution, not only do you avoid all these hassles but you can use the factory two piece rotor that will have better performance and will better match the front rotors. But if you are on a budget, just live with it, use the offset bushing or SAFELY elongate the knuckle with the E60 rotor.
For those who don't mind the E60 rotor, thanks to Kosmic for this picture of the offset bushing. This offset is not sufficient however, you'll need to find a machinist that will make these more aggressive.
For those too cheap to buy and install the bushings or switch back to the F30 rotor, thanks to feuer for this elongation diagram. The red talks about using E90 rotors but I don't recommend that since the rotor size is wrong:
Keep in mind, that if you're going to be elongating the knuckle in any of these cases, you may as well not use the time sert anymore and use the factory width M Performance bolt size which is M12. This is why that circle is depicted as larger in the above diagram.
First, with the E60 Zimmerman rotor, you may not need to machine the caliper AT ALL. Meaning, not the inside of the caliper well or the mounting tabs/ears. You'll just need to check for yourself as aftermarket rotors have a 1-3mm variance between them. I had my caliper ears machined for F30 rotors, and had to add so much spacer back I think I am at or around the stock ear dimensions. Other people have reported not needing to machine this tab with the E60 rotors, so that makes sense.
Second, I have not finished bleeding the brakes or bedding the pads, but I have noticed that the pad sweep is not centered on the rotor surface.
This is because while I did not need to elongate the knuckle since the rotor diameter is not as wide, the caliper sits closer to the center of the hub and it brings the pad with it:
The solutions to this:
1) Live with it
2) Elongate the knuckle and slide the rotor out
3) Replace caliper bushings with custom eccentric bushes with M10 threads
4) Go back to an F30 rotor and pursue the various options.
There are only three ways to have a correct sweep without elongating the knuckle:
A) Swap 1 series hub and use F30 rotor(Big big pain in the ass)
B) Purchase EOS/ECS style bracket and use F30 rotor(This is the best way to do it)
C) Use custom eccentric bushing in calipers
For anyone being cheap, you're going to have to live with it or use the eccentric bushing or elongate the knuckle.
I suggest to buy the EOS/ECS bracket as the ideal solution, not only do you avoid all these hassles but you can use the factory two piece rotor that will have better performance and will better match the front rotors. But if you are on a budget, just live with it, use the offset bushing or SAFELY elongate the knuckle with the E60 rotor.
For those who don't mind the E60 rotor, thanks to Kosmic for this picture of the offset bushing. This offset is not sufficient however, you'll need to find a machinist that will make these more aggressive.
For those too cheap to buy and install the bushings or switch back to the F30 rotor, thanks to feuer for this elongation diagram. The red talks about using E90 rotors but I don't recommend that since the rotor size is wrong:
Keep in mind, that if you're going to be elongating the knuckle in any of these cases, you may as well not use the time sert anymore and use the factory width M Performance bolt size which is M12. This is why that circle is depicted as larger in the above diagram.
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I've updated the guide with a link to the INPA bleeding guide.
I'm still planning to have the eccentric bushes made, but for now I've been just living with the offset pad sweep. The brakes still stop very well, particularly after the INPA bleed.
Here is the clearance with the OEM Style 230 wheels with a 10mm spacer:
I am running a 275/35/19 on the rear and this caused rubbing issues even with rolled fenders, so I changed it back to smaller spacer and those issues have mostly gone away. Here is the 5mm spacer clearance for comparison:
I'm still planning to have the eccentric bushes made, but for now I've been just living with the offset pad sweep. The brakes still stop very well, particularly after the INPA bleed.
Here is the clearance with the OEM Style 230 wheels with a 10mm spacer:
I am running a 275/35/19 on the rear and this caused rubbing issues even with rolled fenders, so I changed it back to smaller spacer and those issues have mostly gone away. Here is the 5mm spacer clearance for comparison:
There are some grey(unpainted) brembos that came on some M Sport configurations. I believe you needed to buy the M Sport package and get the brake upgrade. I don't know what the part numbers are, but if you go hunting for M Sport calipers, sometimes you can get a pair of fronts this way. I forget the difference but IIRC, they are the equivalent to the M Performance calipers. This post gives the explanation:
https://bmw.spoolstreet.com/threads/what-is-the-best-bbk-for-the-money.1066/page-3#post-23497
Just the one that came with the kit. It's the oem f30 shield.
I have the rear shields for sale if anyone cares for them.
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