People with good ideas don't always have the money or the means to see their ideas realized, and people with the means don't always have the best ideas. #mindblown
Direct Injection Delete
- Thread starter 135iTX
- Start date
I totally agree with this. But fitting N52 head really isn't a worthawhile solution for our platform.
IMHO, you are better off with some custom CNC and larger valves on the a ported N54 head instead.
I've sat and read through as much as I could, but no one really spelled it out directly. Is the pump the limitations, or is it the fuel deliver from the low pressure side of things to the actual DI pump, and DI pump to injectors? I mean they are baby dick lines from the direct injection pump there for there's not much volume heading to the injector after it's gone through the DI pump IMO.
Currently the DI system max hp is limited by the injectors. There are several ways to increase this, some are practical and some are not. It looks like the best candidate for increasing HP limits of the DI injectors is by messing with the signals to the injectors (dwell time, pulse widths, timing, etc). Custom injectors or anything along those lines are not really practical since these are piezo and nobody is messing with custom large piezo injectors. The fuel lines currently aren't a hold up, but if they ever became a hold up then it would be relatively easy to make larger lines/rails. Obviously adding port injection along side the DI is another way around the fuel limits, but has it's own set of pros/cons.
Right. I would rather run one fuel source, or use a full stand alone to run a set of port injectors. We are currently getting ready to final install a turbo kit on a c7 z06, and with those you upgrade the cam and get higher flow out of the DI pump. The car is also getting a billet intake mani, with port injectors, a full wiring harness and stand alone ECU to run the actual port injection side of things. It's a serious set up and it's about $12k all in for the parts.
False the limit is not the injectors. The injectors are 3100cc each the limit is the pump and keeping the rail pressure up if you are running e85. Theoretically speaking with Tony hpfp upgrade you can get 1000whp+ using non oxygenated race gas like c16
What fuel pressures were used to create this calculation? I don't feel like going back to read all that stuff again. With the triple hpfp setup Tony showed, I'm pretty sure those injectors could be broken from excess pressure before that pump setup runs out of fuel? These injectors already begin to fail above 800whp, but I'm not sure what kind of pressure/pwm thresholds are involved in those failures.
I thought that was if you could run at 100% duty cycle, but we can only use a small portion of the duty cycle (25% or something?).
There really is no such thing as a good idea without implementation - anything short is imagination.
Filippo
And this opinion is based off of what factual information? Swapping a different head(s) is really common. You're going to have to provide more information that just your opinion for your opinion to have any value.
... read my previous posts and let me how are we suppose to get the valvetronic working first. Assuming everything else perfect perfectly, which doesn't by the way.
Everyone is making false assumptions here. Who says the injectors are failing from pressure? No one knows why they are, maybe its something stupid, and easily fixable, who knows.
Seriously? On a platform where the most HP ever made so far is 938hp....these 3100cc injectors are holding us back? But the fix is to fix the input signlas to the injectors (dwell, pw, timing, etc)? So are you convincing yourself that the injectors might just be the visible symptom of an underlying issue yet?
There was discussion long ago about injector window being a limiting factor. There are multiple injection points for stratified injection that aren't active in the maps(or something along those lines). It was said that we can't get the full 3100?cc of use out of the injectors with the limited window and duty cycle that is currently available. However, with full access, we'd probably run into the issue of wall wetting and serious fuel dilution since the fuel is not being atomized in the intake air path and is spraying directly into the cylinder.
That car didn't use DI only... keep in mind I was simply addressing jonvigil82's question about what the DI limit is right now. Since there are triple Waldron fuel pump setups and triple shotgun that together could probably do around 1500whp on e85, and the DI injectors can only handle about half that, that makes them the limit for DI only. Obviously throw port injection in, or some new ways to use more of the duty cycle, then they will no longer be a 'limit'. But for now I'm not holding my breathe on the first N54 1000+whp car to be DI only!
Perhaps we need to share the math on what exactly 3100cc of fuel from 6x injectors equates to in power potential. Hint...each individual injector can supply enough e85 to support roughly 200hp. All 6 combined, yep, close to 1200hp worth of fuel (that's on e85).
The injectors are NOT a limiting factor *at all* on the N54. Not even close.
I'd study what The Convert said right above you.
Man, I’m confused. I read converts post and my take away from that was injection timing was the issue. Since the window is so short you’d need higher flow injectors to get the fuel in at the time interval we have or change the system as a whole to give us stratafied injection so there’s more than one window. Ergo we either you need a standalone or the injectors are the limiting factor.
Also while I understand we are all passionate let’s “play the ball and not the man”. If we keep commentary to the subject at hand we may actually get to the core problem and help the platform evolve. Since Tony has the most practical experience here by actually testing on a car I’d like to see more from him. I get the feeling he’s keeping his cards close to his chest. @Tony@VargasTurboTech
I’d also like to hear from @jyamona about the stratafied injection tables. Can we activate them ? And how ??
Also once the big power is made we need someone (still looking @jyamona ) to please come up with a way to alter the DCT programming.... it’s a proven 1000hp gearbox in an f10 ffs!
Also while I understand we are all passionate let’s “play the ball and not the man”. If we keep commentary to the subject at hand we may actually get to the core problem and help the platform evolve. Since Tony has the most practical experience here by actually testing on a car I’d like to see more from him. I get the feeling he’s keeping his cards close to his chest. @Tony@VargasTurboTech
I’d also like to hear from @jyamona about the stratafied injection tables. Can we activate them ? And how ??
Also once the big power is made we need someone (still looking @jyamona ) to please come up with a way to alter the DCT programming.... it’s a proven 1000hp gearbox in an f10 ffs!
I guess what I’m saying is no one person has the answer to this puzzle. We need to get the right people doing their bit for the common good.
