Do you happen to have a screenshot of base coolant targets vs your current coolant targets? Just curious.
Best N54 Tuner
- Thread starter Sixbanger
- Start date
Do you happen to have a screenshot of base coolant targets vs your current coolant targets? Just curious.
Thank you for chiming in so thoroughly.
My question to you, my car is running great on a OTS map, but i do have a few things id like to do in the next couple months. Mainly downpipes and inlets when I drop the sub to fix and oil pan leak. That said, its going to take me some time to get that done and if at all possible i'd like to start the tuning process before then. Would that be something you can work with or would you rather I wait until I have the next round of bolt ons on the car?
i've been wanting to hit the track, but the itch for more power before I go has hit me hard and I know I won't have time for a while to get the downpipes and inlets done reasonably soon. And a custom map is just an email away. :lol:
One of my biggest things is that I see you active on the forums and that leads me to believe you're keeping up with the platform and changes, updates, new mods, etc. And obviously you're engineering new stuff yourself so that makes me lean your way just because I like seeing its not just tuning for you but improving the platform as a whole when possible. (eg; meth flow dme integration)
I considered getting with him on a custom file, as I tried his OTS with good success, I personally dont need the tuning ability because I won't touch it myself.
I'm just unsure who I want to spend money with still at this point, few good options.
There's a really nice thing in tuner pro that lets you diff between bin's:
Current settings:
Original bin settings:
When i first started advertising tuning on this platform it literally bugged me out the amount of people that complained about or insinuated people were hiding things if they locked their maps. What was strange to me about this whole thing was that coming from the over a dozen platforms i supported back then (more now) it was common knowledge and globally accepted that if you were getting a custom tune. It would be locked and you would not be able to open it or anything like that.
This is done for the preservation of intellectual property. and to keep people from pirating someone else's work and using it for profit. I'm sure you already saw the thread about Dean where it seems he was just reselling MHD OTS maps for profit under a custom tune label. I didn't follow it much, because i personally don't care, but there was a huge thread on it, and shortly after that he started giving stuff away for free. I was just using it as an example, don't really care much about him or his tunes.
But yea, there is a reason I/we as tuners lock our maps.
when you start the tuning process is entirely up to you. but my service price include full support for 12months as advertised. this included tune updates for new mod and etc. short of main power adders (bigger turbo, nitrous, meth injection, and etc) which would require decent amount of change to balance back out the calibration. However, i can't recall a time where i didn't support a client beyond 12months.
Perhaps an interesting compromise would be to lock the tune using a different than normal key, and only give that key to the person if they pay extra or something.
Of course that requires the same amount of trust as giving them an unlocked tune, because they could just post the key... so it boils down to a trust issue in the end, and how does one prove them selves trust worthy over the internet?... not so easy.
I've said this before, but for my self, and to help prove I'm trust worthy, is that I'm a firmware engineer and have access to things like CAN bus tracers, and thus its a piece of cake to crack... I'm refraining from posting the details so people don't buy one of those and then just start stealing tuner's info, but given the way tunes are currently locked and the data transmitted to the ECU... like I said piece of cake (unless you're smart like Jake and put end to end encryption in).
The fact that I didn't pay someone for a locked tune and then just do that to get what I wanted, and instead was open about it and then paid dean instead, I would hope, is pretty good evidence I have no mal intent.
All that aside, I do completely understand the desire to not have your IP (intellectual property), given out for free, its part of how you make your business.
I'll also admit I'm not your "average" user, and so locked tunes work perfectly fine for the majority of customers.
Of course that requires the same amount of trust as giving them an unlocked tune, because they could just post the key... so it boils down to a trust issue in the end, and how does one prove them selves trust worthy over the internet?... not so easy.
I've said this before, but for my self, and to help prove I'm trust worthy, is that I'm a firmware engineer and have access to things like CAN bus tracers, and thus its a piece of cake to crack... I'm refraining from posting the details so people don't buy one of those and then just start stealing tuner's info, but given the way tunes are currently locked and the data transmitted to the ECU... like I said piece of cake (unless you're smart like Jake and put end to end encryption in).
The fact that I didn't pay someone for a locked tune and then just do that to get what I wanted, and instead was open about it and then paid dean instead, I would hope, is pretty good evidence I have no mal intent.
All that aside, I do completely understand the desire to not have your IP (intellectual property), given out for free, its part of how you make your business.
I'll also admit I'm not your "average" user, and so locked tunes work perfectly fine for the majority of customers.
I offered to pay extra for an unlocked tune and was turned down. I paid for a tune because I didn't want to have to take the time to figure out the wgdc with mmp turbos, and thought a pro tune would be quicker, but I think now that it's easier than initially thought. I've tuned other platforms before but there was enough FUD (especially around hybrid turbo wgdc) to keep me from messing with it and I thought a pro tune would be a week or two and good. It took vastly longer, and a week or two between replies just made it seem even longer.
In my initial tuning, every response was 5 days minimum, sometimes 12, and a few where I had to send multiple follow up emails. I know tuners hate emails (even though that's called work), so I always waited at least a week to follow up. Later I got replies in a day or 2, so maybe it was just a heavy workload.
When my work eases up I plan to retune the car myself. With a stock head and cams there is no change to VE so it's simply a matter of boost, timing, and fueling.
Sure I won't have some super duper proprietary vanos settings, but it's not like my setup has special fantastic spool anyways (or maybe it does and I'll find out by tuning it myself).
There's some mystique tuners like to apply to the N54, when it has so many protections it also allows schlubs to survive.
In my initial tuning, every response was 5 days minimum, sometimes 12, and a few where I had to send multiple follow up emails. I know tuners hate emails (even though that's called work), so I always waited at least a week to follow up. Later I got replies in a day or 2, so maybe it was just a heavy workload.
When my work eases up I plan to retune the car myself. With a stock head and cams there is no change to VE so it's simply a matter of boost, timing, and fueling.
Sure I won't have some super duper proprietary vanos settings, but it's not like my setup has special fantastic spool anyways (or maybe it does and I'll find out by tuning it myself).
There's some mystique tuners like to apply to the N54, when it has so many protections it also allows schlubs to survive.
I'd agree the idea's are fairly simplistic, its all in the time. Non-linear load scaling because of the tricks needed to get 3 and 4 bar TMAPs to work makes life harder, but still doable. Just makes the inflection point where the TMAP curve changes in "load" a touchy spot. That is what I didn't want to try to figure out from scratch.
Further, very few people, from what I've seen, re-map their WGDC base tables to a high enough requested MAF or high enough boost setpoint factor to account for high altitude vs low altitude, and fewer still change their PID gains. And to your point, what WGDC base, what max air flow adder values, etc, to use change with what ever after market turbo setup you're doing, so there's just a bunch of time in trial and error to get a good "starting point" especially with a TMAP curve change thrown in.
Heck, I even made an excel spread sheet that lets me just paste in a WGDC base map, give it the new X and Y values, and it will auto interpolate the new values to keep the same curve the original map had. Gives you a good starting point, and then you can go in and poke it without being super out of wack from the start.
So its just time.... same old story, time is money.
Fueling is pretty easy, go rich for a base, check AFR's with long term and short term trims... change scalars and PI injection maps so the HPFP doesnt sag and has headroom. Go easy on timing until fueling is figured out, then add timing.
Obviously I'm over simplifying things like changing BLM and other things you have to change, but you get the idea.
Vanos, possibly set high valve overlap at low load low RPM for MPG, for power get close to no overlap but then its best to get on a dyno and adjust until you find peak torque for that RPM.... again lots of time involved. The only catch to vanos is that it can tie in with the boost request offset table and make your boost requested for a given load do goofy things because the ECU is calculating a fixed air charge for a given load, which changes with valve overlap and other things (aka VE), so you need to have smooth vanos transitions.... sometimes for spool its a good idea to have valve overlap to allow the turbo to flow air through the engine rather than it piling up on the intake and making resistance to it spinning up (so you don't build a ton of boost during "spool" but the second you remove the valve overlap you do!)... things like that.
Basically, if you know the basics, its not hard.... it just takes time in trial and error to get a good starting point and then pin it down. This is what you're paying the tuner for. The time they spent doing that work, and doing it again because each engine is a little different, and every setup a little different.... thus they protect their IP.... I get it.
That's why I'd love to just pay for a decent base map and do it my self from there, I flat out am paying money for the time spent to find the base map to start with, I'm happy to take it from there, as it saved me time in getting the car to a "drivable" state, and now I can play with my toy like I wanted to in the first place.
Anyways, way off topic. There are plenty of good tuners out there, each with trade offs and what they will and wont give you. I think at the end of the day is down to personal preference as long as you're going with a reputable tuner. (aka, do you get along with them? Will they work with you to get what you want and properly discuss your risk tolerance? etc).
Further, very few people, from what I've seen, re-map their WGDC base tables to a high enough requested MAF or high enough boost setpoint factor to account for high altitude vs low altitude, and fewer still change their PID gains. And to your point, what WGDC base, what max air flow adder values, etc, to use change with what ever after market turbo setup you're doing, so there's just a bunch of time in trial and error to get a good "starting point" especially with a TMAP curve change thrown in.
Heck, I even made an excel spread sheet that lets me just paste in a WGDC base map, give it the new X and Y values, and it will auto interpolate the new values to keep the same curve the original map had. Gives you a good starting point, and then you can go in and poke it without being super out of wack from the start.
So its just time.... same old story, time is money.
Fueling is pretty easy, go rich for a base, check AFR's with long term and short term trims... change scalars and PI injection maps so the HPFP doesnt sag and has headroom. Go easy on timing until fueling is figured out, then add timing.
Obviously I'm over simplifying things like changing BLM and other things you have to change, but you get the idea.
Vanos, possibly set high valve overlap at low load low RPM for MPG, for power get close to no overlap but then its best to get on a dyno and adjust until you find peak torque for that RPM.... again lots of time involved. The only catch to vanos is that it can tie in with the boost request offset table and make your boost requested for a given load do goofy things because the ECU is calculating a fixed air charge for a given load, which changes with valve overlap and other things (aka VE), so you need to have smooth vanos transitions.... sometimes for spool its a good idea to have valve overlap to allow the turbo to flow air through the engine rather than it piling up on the intake and making resistance to it spinning up (so you don't build a ton of boost during "spool" but the second you remove the valve overlap you do!)... things like that.
Basically, if you know the basics, its not hard.... it just takes time in trial and error to get a good starting point and then pin it down. This is what you're paying the tuner for. The time they spent doing that work, and doing it again because each engine is a little different, and every setup a little different.... thus they protect their IP.... I get it.
That's why I'd love to just pay for a decent base map and do it my self from there, I flat out am paying money for the time spent to find the base map to start with, I'm happy to take it from there, as it saved me time in getting the car to a "drivable" state, and now I can play with my toy like I wanted to in the first place.
Anyways, way off topic. There are plenty of good tuners out there, each with trade offs and what they will and wont give you. I think at the end of the day is down to personal preference as long as you're going with a reputable tuner. (aka, do you get along with them? Will they work with you to get what you want and properly discuss your risk tolerance? etc).
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There's no way in hell I would sell unlocked tunes. That's asking to get your ish stolen and you run risk of people blaming you for their f up when they decided to play with the tune you sent them. That's a no go at this station chief.
As stated all the well known tuners are good at what they do, some get you tunes right a little faster than others and all are within 10 to 15 rwk of each other.
Pick the one who gives you the best price vs experience and turn around time.
The more info you give them about your setup and what you will sacrifice or wont will determine how quickly and easily this will occur.
Be realistic about your goals and don't expect record braking numbers as lots have tried and paid the price, if your not sure ask them what you should expect and not those facebook know it all's that think because they changed a sparkplug they are full blown know it all mechanics
Pick the one who gives you the best price vs experience and turn around time.
The more info you give them about your setup and what you will sacrifice or wont will determine how quickly and easily this will occur.
Be realistic about your goals and don't expect record braking numbers as lots have tried and paid the price, if your not sure ask them what you should expect and not those facebook know it all's that think because they changed a sparkplug they are full blown know it all mechanics
5 months? Changing a lot of things during that time or just a difficult setup to get ironed out?Better stop spamming Twisted if that mean I end up back in the queue haha Tune is 5 months in progress so I guess I can wait a little longer
F-series N55 PWG PS2 with meth. Just difficult to work with I guess.
lol ... one man's nightmare ... another man's fun. I love seeing other people's "projects" from a distance!
Filippo
And in this case you absolutely have my permission to laugh. My ears are still ringing from the last time @CNM135i laughed at my car breaking down.
worth depends on the owner. but i've never found a "need" or "worth" to have a JB4 on ours vehicles. But again the worth is up to the owner. But we do everything, flash only, stacked, standalones, and etc.
So what are the pro s and con s of jb4 stacked setup compared to mhd only ?
