Technical B58 teardown

[Asbjorn]

Here I am waiting for someone to snap and post some pics of the chassis, subframe. Does it have 3'er quality crap or M arms/subframe/knuckles? It's all in the details and everyone is wasting time on a DynoJet. lol... Does the Z4/Supra continue with a mish mash of compromised suspension components or have they finally done away with that approach?

Oh it has the normal 3er stuff. Rear subframe with bushings. Rear G20 components. Very little forged aluminum. However interestingly it has dedicated front knuckles, front struts and control arms, which might explain why it has so much static front camber. Still G20 style though.

G29 Z4:

RealOEM.com - Online BMW Parts Catalog

BMW parts Z4 G29 Z4 M40i Frnt axle support,wishbone/tension strut

www.realoem.com

RealOEM.com - Online BMW Parts Catalog

BMW parts Z4 G29 Z4 M40i Rear axle support/wheel suspension

www.realoem.com

None of it compares to the M stuff:

RealOEM.com - Online BMW Parts Catalog

BMW parts 4' F82 M4 LCI M4 CS Frnt axle support,wishbone/tension strut

www.realoem.com

RealOEM.com - Online BMW Parts Catalog

BMW parts 4' F82 M4 LCI M4 CS Rear axle support/wheel suspension

www.realoem.com

How all of this compares to the Supra I wouldn't know. It is certainly less heavy so springs are different as a minimum.

Now to say that the M stuff is good and the 3er stuff is crap is just wrong. The M stuff doesn't compare to the M240i racing / GT3-4 stuff, and the 3er stuff doesn't compare to the 5er stuff. What you want, is a matter of preference, and what you want to use the car for. If you love the supra, but want a more comfortable or track oriented drive, you can just change those parts anyhow.

It is like saying that a loud exhaust is better than a quiet exhaust. It just isn't. You will probably like both, but at different times. Fortunately it is easy to modify. Or maybe I have forgotten what it means to be a regular consumer.

Anyway, great video OP. Just browsed through the guys channel - lost of interesting stuff in there.

 

[fmorelli]

Does the Z4/Supra continue with a mishmash of compromised suspension components or have they finally done away with that approach?

Ironically the suspensions seem nearly identical, but that said the Z4 is a traditional "evolution" suspension: parts/design from the other production chassis. Thematically for non-core models (e.g. E85, E89, e36 318ti, et al) it's been current generation front suspension, previous generation rear suspension. I haven't looked but my guess is the G29 caught up to the 2007 E90 rear suspension design.

Why would BMW "finally" do away with an approach that has been a core tenant of how they develop, cost, and differentiate their product lines? I assume that's a sarcastic comment - BMW has had this approach since we were in diapers.

The Z4 has never been a performance sports car, on in the "two-seater, open top" classic definition that would mean a Triumph TR6 would qualify, but in the way we here would probably define it as such. And the current G29 likely bears that out, at least in the sense that BMW doesn't consider it M-worthy. The buying demographics have not traditionally been the hardcore performance enthusiasts - i.e. in the BMW world, those that might buy M cars at the dealer. In reality, and traditionally, the hardcore buyers have often been in the used and modify market. Said another way, what Porsche does the Z4 go head-to-head. As a core model, at least in the USA (I don't know world figures), the Z4 has been a lost soul - I believe 10,000 units were sold over the whole E89 chassis production and 7-8 years of sales.

But don't feel bad on the compromise in the suspension category. When the E90 received its revolutionary rear suspension (that is, a fundamental design departure from its previous E46 generation sibling), it basically went the design way of the 1980's Mercedes W124.

Filippo

 

[Torgus]

The percentage of people who will want to make north of 700WHP will be miniscule, just like Most MKIV owners.

Do you think most people with a modified n54 want to make north or south of 700whp?

Every supra owner I know makes north of 700whp. Stock unopened blocks. You can make 300whp or 1500whp with a 2JZ. You have the options to make whatever you want basically, if you have the coin. That will NEVER be the case with the B58.

Show me how you build for an enthusiast that also has to pass increasingly stringent euro emissions laws?

Does bmw offer the S55 or S58 in Europe?
Is the B58 basically an N55? Is the N55 basically a denutted N54?

JZs are also boat anchors. I said it.

The 2JZ is an iron block closed deck from 1991, yes it is heavier compared to a modern engine. That is what 29 years of progress will do or half a lifetime. I would take a 2JZ swapped E92 over an n54 all day every day.

 

[9krpmrx8]

The new Supra is already running 10's while others are worried about bragging rights with their dyno queens. Back in the day when they were newish, all the 1000WHP Supras that showed up to the track were 11 second cars.

 

[Torgus]

Back in the day when they were newish, all the 1000WHP Supras that showed up to the track were 11 second cars.

So just like most N54s from 400-900whp, stuck in the 11s

 

[SJ_1989]

Because people dump all their money into the engine and forget that all that power has to get to the ground via suspension and tires....Works great on the dyno when strapped down and 3 people sitting in the trunk

 

[Abacus38]

The motor is fine. You can probably make around 850whp(1000hp) with the headfold thing then swap it out for the US spec b58 head if you want more. Furthermore they're already in the 10s and the car has only been out for 3 weeks lol.

 

[gmx]

The new Supra is already running 10's while others are worried about bragging rights with their dyno queens. Back in the day when they were newish, all the 1000WHP Supras that showed up to the track were 11 second cars.

What's the joke again? What's the difference between a 1000hp supra and 500hp supra. Nothing, they both run 12s

Anyway, 700whp 29year old 2JZ ... verified VBOX? Good ol' inflated American dynos. Heaps of them here and Japan spin bearings whether they're BPU'd, or making "healthy" 500-600BHP. 800hP StOcK BlOcK.
It's a great block with lots of torsional stiffness not without it's downsides and imo has absolutely no place in anything other than a drag car. If you want to go fast in a straight, I'd question why the N54, let alone a BMW in the first place. But hey, slips by vendors sell products I guess.

Videos without fake news:

As for the G29 suspension, I'm not asking about that. There are claims that Toyota did their own geometry and suggestions of their own design. "Crap" was harsh. The non-M/M arms have the same rigidity. The M arms are lighter aside from geometry, bearing/bushing differences.

 

[JimboFresh206]

hey... at-least the n54 and 2jz share equally shitty albeit different design for timing components

pound for pound the 2j is a great motor, but with non-vvti engines cresting 4k the whole "its cheaper" argument is becoming a wash.

2j's spin bearings, 2j's eat rings, Stock cams are mediocre (Unopened engine? K), Timing belt tensioners snap, The cog twists, Balancers explode and eat the crankshaft key way, Clutch options are more expensive (for something that holds), r154's eat 2nd gear syncho's (which are becoming a bitch to find)....

anyways im going on a tangent, i just get irked when i see 2j stuff lol

in regards to the b58, my main point of interest, aside from the headifold Vs. 6 port, would the longevity of its timing components.

Audi has been putting it all on the back for a while with great success! **Sarcasm**

 

[Torgus]

Good ol' inflated American dynos.

Dynojets seem to be the gold standard world wide no? I'm not sure what those videos were supposed to prove? a 2J is better than an RB? Ok? Did anyone bring up RB skyline engines from the 90s?

I can't imagine anyone is excited the supra got the B58. Again, it will NEVER touch in output what the previous supra's 30 year old iron block 2JZ can put down. The engine choice is a real shame and Toyota should be given shit for it relentlessly. Hell the entire interior is BMW and bmw all over the engine bay, it's barely a Toyota. All the fake vents etc. Give Toyota shit. They fucked up the supra.

How cool would it be to see supras up against skylines again? Shop against shop pushing the envelope? That was a cool rivalry if you will the 90s/2000s w/ two japanese turbo i6 battling it out rwd vs awd. The B58 is a MASSIVE let down. Can't compete with the same displacement engine from 30 years ago let alone the engine in the new skyline. Godzilla won before the car was even released. They went for an easy cash grab using the supra's name and legacy. They did not even try and compete. Toyota fucked up the FR-s/BRZ and are doing it all over again with the supra.

Regardless to all of this the new c8 will gobble up sales as it is priced right. Why bother with a bmw supra when you can have a mid engine rwd vette for less $$$ with more performance and more performance headroom?

I like Doug's review the best:

 

[9krpmrx8]

"can put down". Most Supras back in the day were not that fast, I can think of one or two during the 90's when I lived street racing and drag racing and they were still 11 second cars and then Titan and others started getting serious with drag cars but there were not many truly fast street cars. And I bet if the A90 Supra was 100k, it would not have a problem stock for stock against an R35. And the Vette is a whole other target demo IMO.

 

[gmx]

Why is it Americans never do VBOX verified 0-200 nor 0-100 yet it's always a DJ in shootout mode with firmware loaded on it specifically for YOUR region. Dude, we manufacture and export mainlines here. They have different firmware for your region, everyone knows this. Some company's here got the shits and started using your locale firmware on their DJ's to get customers. Lol, it's a laugh fest and still catches people out till today.
Less dyno eyes, more traps/verified VBOX.

2nd paragraph right there. You know why? Because Toyota have been making fridges on wheels since 1995. That's why. They don't know and no longer know how to build a "sportscar" nor "supra" themselves; it'd take them shit load of money and time. Aka Lexus LFA.

This is just Toyaburu 86/FR-S/BRZ v2.0. If you expected any different, you're the fool here.

 

[Asbjorn]

On a related note, saw this build three weeks ago in China... I can't say I understand the vision, but amazing it is:

 

[Abacus38]

I'm super excited! They are going to be dropping the new EFR 9280 in there. We are definitely going to see how much jam this bad boy can make. Also Induction performance in Tampa already fabbed up a top mount kit. Shops are going all in on this platform so it's going to be interesting to see what they can pull off

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