135i Build - Track Toy with a License Plate
- Thread starter berns
- Start date
Thanks -- the e82 is lighter, more nimble and way more exciting to drive. The e90 was more stable and had better front-end grip / less understeer. It's taken a long time to get the e82 to behave, and even still, I wish the front end was more responsive and had more grip. I'm going to work with KW to revise the suspension and we'll see how it goes. I'd choose the e82 all day over the e90, just by weight alone.
Here are some updated photos with the wheels on. Still quite a bit to do! Hopefully wrap the rest of it up this week and next.
Interesting comment on the understeer vs the E90, which front knuckles and front wheel offset were running on the 1er?
Factory knuckles. I've had a wide variation of front wheel/tire combos as well as control arms and spring rates.
The car feels great currently, but on some tighter tracks out here like Streets of Willow and Buttonwillow, understeer is still an issue and the car doesn't rotate enough.
Most recent setup before the rear body work:
18x9.5 +22 front with 275/35/18 BFG Rival S
18x9.5 +48 rear with 275/35/18 BFG Rival S
-3.5* front camber
-2.6* rear camber
KW clubsport dampers with Vorschlag camber plates and Swift springs, 8k front / 14k rear.
Eibach Sway bars
All bushings, mounts and arms are upgraded.
Alex,
Here's my theory, based on observation and experience. Wide front tires, typically achieved via numerically lower offsets that stock on a McPherson front suspension, lead to understeer in slower/tighter corners where more steering lock is needed, and the "ackermann" error becomes greater. This is not an issue in faster sweepers, where the wider rubber does its job. The M3 front knuckles are designed for an offset of +29, and have the steering geometry optimized to match. Might be something worth looking into for you...
Oh, and ditch the eibach front sway, I would run a base 128/328 front sway bar(-8% softer than stock 135) with your 8k front springs, might also be worthwhile to soften your front springs a little bit to 6-7k, and raising your front ride height to match.
I would also suggest at least a 20mm rear sway bar as well (I believe the eibach is 15mm?)
Just my 0.02c
Oh, and FWIW I recently found out that the M4 GTS comes with fixed (KW) camber plates with just -1.75deg of negative camber by design...
Here's my theory, based on observation and experience. Wide front tires, typically achieved via numerically lower offsets that stock on a McPherson front suspension, lead to understeer in slower/tighter corners where more steering lock is needed, and the "ackermann" error becomes greater. This is not an issue in faster sweepers, where the wider rubber does its job. The M3 front knuckles are designed for an offset of +29, and have the steering geometry optimized to match. Might be something worth looking into for you...
Oh, and ditch the eibach front sway, I would run a base 128/328 front sway bar(-8% softer than stock 135) with your 8k front springs, might also be worthwhile to soften your front springs a little bit to 6-7k, and raising your front ride height to match.
I would also suggest at least a 20mm rear sway bar as well (I believe the eibach is 15mm?)
Just my 0.02c
Oh, and FWIW I recently found out that the M4 GTS comes with fixed (KW) camber plates with just -1.75deg of negative camber by design...
Alex,
Here's my theory, based on observation and experience. Wide front tires, typically achieved via numerically lower offsets that stock on a McPherson front suspension, lead to understeer in slower/tighter corners where more steering lock is needed, and the "ackermann" error becomes greater. This is not an issue in faster sweepers, where the wider rubber does its job. The M3 front knuckles are designed for an offset of +29, and have the steering geometry optimized to match. Might be something worth looking into for you...
Oh, and ditch the eibach front sway, I would run a base 128/328 front sway bar(-8% softer than stock 135) with your 8k front springs, might also be worthwhile to soften your front springs a little bit to 6-7k, and raising your front ride height to match.
I would also suggest at least a 20mm rear sway bar as well (I believe the eibach is 15mm?)
Just my 0.02c
Oh, and FWIW I recently found out that the M4 GTS comes with fixed (KW) camber plates with just -1.75deg of negative camber by design...
I've had an M3 bar in there and the front end felt nice, but it didn't allow enough suspension travel and caused me to spin my inside rear wheel, killing corner exit speeds.
I ran 6k/12k initially, with 18x9 +42 front and rear and 255s all around, stock sway bars. Easy to get power down and OK handling, just overall so soft and quite sloppy.
Once I can finally drive this thing again I'll start looking back into the setup. I think 16-18k rear springs will be the sweet spot as it sits.
Impressive... Most impressive.
You have to wonder how much lap time improvement these would be worth, especially given their likely $3k+ asking price. I suppose these are the hot ticket for extra-low, extra-stiff, and extra-aero'd race cars... It's worth noting btw, that the E92 M3 GTS is just 16/12mm lower F/R than the regular Competition Package M3
You have to wonder how much lap time improvement these would be worth, especially given their likely $3k+ asking price. I suppose these are the hot ticket for extra-low, extra-stiff, and extra-aero'd race cars... It's worth noting btw, that the E92 M3 GTS is just 16/12mm lower F/R than the regular Competition Package M3
F82 GTS knuckle is bespoke and different from F8x.
I am not surprised about the E82 vs E9x characteristics, but believed it was due to wheelbase.
I am not surprised about the E82 vs E9x characteristics, but believed it was due to wheelbase.
how do you like the hood? debating between the same seibon or the fibernation fiberglass one since in the end i plan on painting as well. did you change the hood pistons or reinforce the areas where they connect with anything? @Hydra Performance you have any preference or experience. my hood needs to be painted so i figured id update to the m3 stle hood, really like the look and think it compliments the 1m bumper which i am finally getting around to installing.
I didn't buy the 1M ducts because my oil coolers are bigger than stock and not in stock locations. I run two 19-row Setrab cores. Definitely a huge improvement over stock but I'm still able to find the limit in hot weather. This is with no ducting. The cores are just being hit with air. It's not ideal. Once I have the car back, I'm going to revise the mounting locations and build ducting for each core which I think will really help.
I happen to run twin 25 row, with one of them ducted. Oil temperature is doing much better than ECT and IAT. Im adding aux radiators and coolant booster pump as next step.
My friend drove the car a few laps for practice and wasn't aware of how hot the car was getting in +37C ambient. I would never have pushed as hard as he did, but at least I learned that even when everything else overheated (iat +100C, ect 119C), the oil temp was still doing fine, staying below 140C.
So this is to say that ducting + 2 x 25row oil cooling is probably overkill, especially if paired with a standard-sized N54 radiator.
Just my five cents...
FWIW, I'm running a single 34-row Setrab oil cooler on the passenger (right) side of my 1M and will shortly replace the stock auxilliary radiator on the other side with the same Setrab piece to add greater cooling capacity to my CSF radiator.
Curious about the coolant booster pump.
Neil
Curious about the coolant booster pump.
Neil
Our sprint sessions are 12-15minutes maximum. Any tyres other than slicks aren't really in their window for a full session, so a cooldown lap every couple laps is inevitable. We also get 80-105F temps except Winter, this time of year is basically called "turbo car PB time"
I'm going to say the basic formula for any car that doesn't have turbo(s) pushing hot air will be a properly sized FMIC, ducting and shrouding where possible, water concentrated coolant system. Sure, this won't work for everybody. Horses for courses, literally. Without shrouding/ducting, you're basically adding more oil capacity rather than heat exchanging it. Which isn't bad and in itself will last a little longer before eventually equalising.
My current setup is plumbed in series: T-stat delete plate -> Mosselman (335i/135i/1M only I think) Setrab 19 row with OEM duct on the RHS -> Aeroflow 25-row core on the LHS (aux rad removed) -> return.
All in -10AN lines/fittings.
Extremely impressed by how light the MSL is for a stainless bracket. My LHS has a 25row housed in a custom fabricated bracket/duct. It's heavy and the core is basically trashed from use and no protection from debris/fod in the wheel arch. I will tape either side off and do a back to back on the same day in the near future.
It's not really going to be a fair comparison without switching up the plumbing since I run the twin coolers in series. I'm just going to tape one side off for each session and base the performance off that. If I can be bothered getting oily, I'll slap in a -10AN union flare fitting to loop the lines and bypass a given core. But I'm also lazy
Old (never tracked this setup):
Will get a pic of the new one without the bumper on. Testing fender/bumper clearance here in preparation for trimming the duct opening. It's still a street car, no janky stuff here.
At the moment, before actual testing I can see myself going to back to OEM ducting (trimmed+shrouded), flushed coolant with 80% water, maybe twin Setrab 19 rows in the MSL kit. A single 19 row is rated to 310hp. Engine lubrication efficiency (or deficiency) aside. https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pdfs/SetrabApplicationSuggestions.pdf
Sticking with -10AN line as per Setrab recommendations. No oil pressure gauge. Might be time for something like a Vbox where I can feed / overlay additional dataloggers since the N54 doesn't have oil pressure and it doesn't look like MHD will patch it to support it (and the N55 pressure sender/switch). Going OT here... Screw it, while we're there, I'd love something unassuming like a F80/F82 GTS-style bonnet.
I'm going to say the basic formula for any car that doesn't have turbo(s) pushing hot air will be a properly sized FMIC, ducting and shrouding where possible, water concentrated coolant system. Sure, this won't work for everybody. Horses for courses, literally. Without shrouding/ducting, you're basically adding more oil capacity rather than heat exchanging it. Which isn't bad and in itself will last a little longer before eventually equalising.
My current setup is plumbed in series: T-stat delete plate -> Mosselman (335i/135i/1M only I think) Setrab 19 row with OEM duct on the RHS -> Aeroflow 25-row core on the LHS (aux rad removed) -> return.
All in -10AN lines/fittings.
Extremely impressed by how light the MSL is for a stainless bracket. My LHS has a 25row housed in a custom fabricated bracket/duct. It's heavy and the core is basically trashed from use and no protection from debris/fod in the wheel arch. I will tape either side off and do a back to back on the same day in the near future.
It's not really going to be a fair comparison without switching up the plumbing since I run the twin coolers in series. I'm just going to tape one side off for each session and base the performance off that. If I can be bothered getting oily, I'll slap in a -10AN union flare fitting to loop the lines and bypass a given core. But I'm also lazy
Old (never tracked this setup):
Will get a pic of the new one without the bumper on. Testing fender/bumper clearance here in preparation for trimming the duct opening. It's still a street car, no janky stuff here.
At the moment, before actual testing I can see myself going to back to OEM ducting (trimmed+shrouded), flushed coolant with 80% water, maybe twin Setrab 19 rows in the MSL kit. A single 19 row is rated to 310hp. Engine lubrication efficiency (or deficiency) aside. https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pdfs/SetrabApplicationSuggestions.pdf
Sticking with -10AN line as per Setrab recommendations. No oil pressure gauge. Might be time for something like a Vbox where I can feed / overlay additional dataloggers since the N54 doesn't have oil pressure and it doesn't look like MHD will patch it to support it (and the N55 pressure sender/switch). Going OT here... Screw it, while we're there, I'd love something unassuming like a F80/F82 GTS-style bonnet.
Last edited:
I have never even heard of intake temps that high 100C or 212F is crazy high. you would be down 100hp I reckon.
Might need a Plazmaman intercooler.
Yeah I need better ducting for my new custom fmic, air can escape below it, theres a massive gap as I removed all the plastic... but eventually, as I add even more radiators, I foresee a need to spray and inject water for the fmic to be able to keep up.
@gmx thanks for the info. I hadn't heard of MSL. Their brackets look awesome, and being that I already have two poorly mounted 19-row Setrabs, I contacted them to see if I could purchase the brackets. Seems like an awesome solution, and I'll then buy 1M ducts and modify them a bit to fit. All sounds way better than making custom ducting too.
Similar threads
