What company for a built motor?

[fmorelli]

Just to tag on to @Torgus comments. Often the way a shop gets experience is by working with close, past customers developing new capabilities. These are relationships that can endure some of the learning curve. There is nothing wrong with being a guinea pig but one has to know what one is getting in to and why. Platform experience and reputation thereof is a good thing.

On the VAC front, I don't know what Tony has done N54-wise.

The BMW DE and road race community is largely N54 tone deaf. Honestly show me one car that has REAL road racing experience - I don't mean they've run 2 20 minute bullshit sprints in a year - any chump can do that. To my knowledge no one has done and proven a serious N54 based track car - the kind that can go out for a season of pounding. Reliably.

Filippo

 

[Torgus]

Does motiv still take on these builds though? I haven't seen it offered on their page. Might have to call em and see what's up. Abr seems good too so I'll see what they got.

FWIW It's not like MOTIV was building these in house. They had to out source them.

I would probably go ABR. Just based on the information that ABR has shared, it makes me more comfortable with them. I know a lot of people will say there are top secret things you need to know to build a motor, but it's JUST a motor. I simply like that Alex is very sharing - his videos on Youtube are very informative.

Yup, Alex is extremely transparent and open in what goes on in his shop and engine builds from what I can see. He certainly posts enough of it online! Seems like a really good dude.

 

[The Convert]

Just to tag on to @Torgus comments. Often the way a shop gets experience is by working with close, past customers developing new capabilities. These are relationships that can endure some of the learning curve. There is nothing wrong with being a guinea pig but one has to know what one is getting in to and why. Platform experience and reputation thereof is a good thing.

On the VAC front, I don't know what Tony has done N54-wise.

The BMW DE and road race community is largely N54 tone deaf. Honestly show me one car that has REAL road racing experience - I don't mean they've run 2 20 minute bullshit sprints in a year - any chump can do that. To my knowledge no one has done and proven a serious N54 based track car - the kind that can go out for a season of pounding. Reliably.

Filippo

I'm assuming you're forgetting about the Motiv 135 race car?

 

[Seaneezy]

My vote is Motiv. They actually have years of experience racing a built engine single turbo N54. Not just straight line pulls. No other vendor on here can say the same unless things have changed.

ABR would be my second choice.
MMP is just too risky
VTT is well..VTT
VAC is expensive and no real track record on building N54s that I am aware of.


What is your goal for the engine/car?

https://bmw.spoolstreet.com/threads/raise-your-hand-if-youve-blown-up-an-n54.2157/#post-21844

Don't go VAC. They're great at taking your money but not much else.

I had a shit ton of problems with everything from small orders to when I ordered rod bearings for my N54 and they sent me wrong ones. They also tried selling me bed plate studs that don't exist for the N54. Avoid like week-old gas station sushi.

VAC has been around a(use all caps) LONG TIME they have already created their own reputation.

I'm saying I wouldn't give an N54 to VAC because of their lack of experience with that specific motor. Do you get it? Not a large enough track record(pun). Period. Rebello(if you know so much about them I am surprised you spelled their name wrong but whatever) does not have a long enough track record with the N54 for me. If you are ready to give them your money go for it bro. Motiv and ABR have a proven track record, 4+ years of building high HP n54 engines that have actually been competitively raced across North America, not just ran in a straight line for 1 minute. What do you think puts more stress on an engine? Hence why I would give them my business 1st. This is just my opinion, it sounds like you have made up your own regarding Rebello based on your facts...

http://www.vacmotorsports.com/race-team.html <--read on

VAC has a large history in racing, engine builds, etc. I still would not let them touch an N54 because they don't have a lot of experience with it. Same with Rebello currently.

Do you know what Rebello is known for? It's not their BMW engines, I know this is probably a shocker to you as you know so much about them and their reputation. I'm not trying to take anything away from Rebello's accomplishments. Just that it makes sense to go with proven options unless there is a compelling reason($$$ or technology) to be a guinea pig for a new comer.






True but that whole ZAGE debacle was amusing to watch play out on the forums and social media though.

The problem doesn't lie with platform knowledge but their actual shop is useless. VAC sells quality stuff if you can get it installed somewhere else. I have the stage 3 ported head that I bought from them and installed at a pro shop near me, it will always be the better option if you can do it. The biggest problem imo is price, VAC tax is real. VAC have deserved their reputation in race-quality parts and insane engine builds, with all that reputation comes a tax on a motor that not a lot of people work on directly. I have no relation to them, I just don't understand the excessive hate.

P/S: The flow on the stage 3 head is not the best out of the options there are, but my engine has seen some serious abuse and the head really makes the car breathe after tens of thousands of miles.

 

[veer90]

I have no relation to them, I just don't understand the excessive hate.

When there have been several people in the N5x community with less-than-stellar (read: awful) experiences with VAC, I'd say the "hate" is justified. Massive air quotes on the last.

VAC have dug themselves into a hole now they get to lie in it.

I tell anyone who will listen to never give them money.

 

[fmorelli]

I'm assuming you're forgetting about the Motiv 135 race car?

Nope, actually.

Filippo

 

[gorspeed]

The N54 isnt doing anything new, n54 experience this , that... Plenty of people have sleeved, closed deck blocks, built engines with bed pans.

Live a little...

 

[Rcboosted2007]

My vote is Motiv. They actually have years of experience racing a built engine single turbo N54. Not just straight line pulls. No other vendor on here can say the same unless things have changed.

ABR would be my second choice.
MMP is just too risky
VTT is well..VTT
VAC is expensive and no real track record on building N54s that I am aware of.


What is your goal for the engine/car?

Dumb negative.....lol jk

 

[boostE92d]

ABR is local to me here in Houston and they have a great reputation, doing lots of work for many people I know. The only negative I remember seeing on forums about ABR motors was Tony. He was pushing his next engine builder at that point, so I take his opinion with a grain of salt.

It's a lot of money though, so I would be interviewing builders and returning with follow ups. Face to face would be ideal as well. Good luck on the build, keep us posted.

 

[E92 420]

Just to tag on to @Torgus comments. Often the way a shop gets experience is by working with close, past customers developing new capabilities. These are relationships that can endure some of the learning curve. There is nothing wrong with being a guinea pig but one has to know what one is getting in to and why. Platform experience and reputation thereof is a good thing.

On the VAC front, I don't know what Tony has done N54-wise.

The BMW DE and road race community is largely N54 tone deaf. Honestly show me one car that has REAL road racing experience - I don't mean they've run 2 20 minute bullshit sprints in a year - any chump can do that. To my knowledge no one has done and proven a serious N54 based track car - the kind that can go out for a season of pounding. Reliably.

Filippo

Tuning werk and motorsport24 both in Germany have been building and racing theses cars for about 8 years

 

[fmorelli]

Tuning werk and motorsport24 both in Germany have been building and racing theses cars for about 8 years

This is good to know! Thanks! @barry@3DM

Filippo

 

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

We use Rebello, as previously pointed out, and you will too if you're serious. No one else can touch them. Shoot me an email if you would like to start a dialog and work towards a quote based on what preferences/parts you would like to have on your build, unless of course you'd rather consult some of the experts here in this thread if you're more interested in hearing the sound of their spoon bang on an empty pot.

Chris

 

[The Banshee]

I see that some builders offer sleeves while others only offer inserts. The sleeves are more expensive. Is there a significant benefit using sleeves versus the inserts at the 700whp level? Are sleeves necessary to address false knock or have they fixed that issue with the inserts?

 

[fmorelli]

I think this is really something to discuss in detail with the engine builders that are taking their respective approaches - probably a dialog with Alex @ ABR and Rebello that runs custom sleeves on the factory open-deck configuration.

Anecdotally a semi-open deck was not done by BMW. Most Subie STI are semi-open deck.

Filippo

 

[Jlcn54]

I'm surprise no one has mention Ghassan Automotive their pretty popular on the facebook group, reasonable price with warranty

 

[Torgus]

I'm surprise no one has mention Ghassan Automotive their pretty popular on the facebook group, reasonable price with warranty

All I can hear is sound of your spoon banging on your empty pot.

 

[boostE92d]

All I can hear is sound of your spoon banging on your empty pot.

I usually prefer to bang two spoons together myself. I'm pretty awesome though, so there's that.

 

[Abacus38]

At the power level we're currently at you can run either or. I haven't seen anybody actually cracked a sleeve yet from power. Most guys are running less then 150hp per cylinder. In all honesty for 99.9% of N54 closed deck insert with rods and pistons will work just fine. Even in the Honda community you got guys pushing that combo towards 225hp per cylinder. Once you get above that it's a great idea to start sleeving the block.

 

[The Convert]

At the power level we're currently at you can run either or. I haven't seen anybody actually cracked a sleeve yet from power. Most guys are running less then 150hp per cylinder. In all honesty for 99.9% of N54 closed deck insert with rods and pistons will work just fine. Even in the Honda community you got guys pushing that combo towards 225hp per cylinder. Once you get above that it's a great idea to start sleeving the block.

I don't think it's a good idea to "blindly" compare platforms to each other in power per cylinder without comparing wall thickness and materials in the same breath.

 

[ccbsecu]

Down side to Sleeves, Closed Deck Insert, and forged internals? ARP everything Head Studs, Mains, etc...?