WGDC Drops. Default to WGDC Base. No PID added

[chrisdfv]

I've seen your past logs and they were square on the money in terms of boost control. I'm really curious as to why it is adding WGDC when you are already over target

Million dollar question

 

[WOT808]

Try clearing your load control and related adaptations. Side note, I'll get around to adding the pid timer tables one of these days.

Any updates on this?


I haven't run into the PID timer issue in a while after making minor changes and tapering target.
Also to note, I haven't had a chance to log too many extended pulls so I can't say I'm in the clear just yet.

Latest log:
https://datazap.me/u/m6keharr/boost-lift?log=1&data=3-6-23-29-30-31

Is this purely a tuning issue with or will having access to the timer tables be the best solution?

 

[tony@codewerx]

Your Intercooler table stock ?

 

[WOT808]

Your Intercooler table stock ?

What table are you referring to?
I'm running the Phoenix Race FMIC

 

[sleet142]

@WOT808 It looks like your boost is slightly above target as well, but you are saying that it does not time out?

Sidenote: I updated my thread in the other site that you have been helping me with, and my car seems to be 0.2 or so above target as well without a time out. Although I only went to 6000 rpm.

I'd be nice to get a solution to this. Otherwise, we are going to be running some crazy looking PID setups.

 

[chrisdfv]

@WOT808 It looks like your boost is slightly above target as well, but you are saying that it does not time out?

Sidenote: I updated my thread in the other site that you have been helping me with, and my car seems to be 0.2 or so above target as well without a time out. Although I only went to 6000 rpm.

I'd be nice to get a solution to this. Otherwise, we are going to be running some crazy looking PID setups.

I tried a stock D-factor and have some pretty good results.

 

[sleet142]

log?

 

[sleet142]

I am going to give this a go on my next log.

 

[chrisdfv]

log?

Just needs a bit more base, but my trans broke this day and the cars been down ever since. I'll be back to logging once I manual swap, but i think I've solved my PID time out issue.

https://datazap.me/u/cd919/new-trans?log=1&data=3-7-22-30-31

 

[sleet142]

nice! I will keep this in mind

 

[sleet142]

So far @WOT808 and I have been working on my cars tune. This is where I/we are at:

https://datazap.me/u/sleet142/161-blm-testing?log=0&data=3-6-8-24&solo=7

What made a huge difference on my car was flashing back to stock then flashing my tune on it WITHOUT the blmxgear or lpg tables and using the stock tables. I was having a lot of issues when I was using the gear x gear tables. Now I use default tables with the boost setpoint x WGDC table which has cleared up my issues.

I am using a modified d-factor multiplier with a stock d-factor table.

 

[keninger]

Just needs a bit more base, but my trans broke this day and the cars been down ever since. I'll be back to logging once I manual swap, but i think I've solved my PID time out issue.

What solved your PID timout issue? On some cars I run into this issue with an N20 sensor even though I am right on target it times out, or even if I force boost over target it times out.

This is one of the cases, for example, later I forced it over target even more, and still timed out.

Datazap Link

 

[chrisdfv]

What solved your PID timout issue? On some cars I run into this issue with an N20 sensor even though I am right on target it times out, or even if I force boost over target it times out.

This is one of the cases, for example, later I forced it over target even more, and still timed out.

Datazap Link

I have no fix for this. The only time it happens is around 20psi on a scaled map. 18 and below no issue. 21ish and above it's not a problem.
Typically only see it on boostbox cars.

 

[keninger]

I have no fix for this. The only time it happens is around 20psi on a scaled map. 18 and below no issue. 21ish and above it's not a problem.
Typically only see it on boostbox cars.

I assume it is something in an undiscovered table, and rescaling messes up something. Either ways what is weird, I ran an n20 tmap on my personal car and did run under target, and pid still never timed out at around 18-20psi. full send tune btw so don't be surprised at wgdc.

Log of boost under target and no pid time out

 

[Dyyd]

Excellent solution would be if someone discovered the PID timeout value and that could be altered. Or if MHD added disabling the pid timeout as an option.

 

[carabuser]

Excellent solution would be if someone discovered the PID timeout value and that could be altered. Or if MHD added disabling the pid timeout as an option.

Timeout value is 2.55 seconds. It's maxed out in the code so increasing the timer isn't possible. You can just alter the threshold so the timer never starts though.

The logic looks at the boost error and the wastegate PID adder amount and if the wastegate adder exceeds a certain level based on the boost error then it triggers an error that disables PID adder completely. The threshold for the error condition decreases as the boost error increases so that's why you see it more often when people have a boost leak as they are vastly down from target.

Increasing this value doesn't fix anything though, it just hides the problem. This diagnostic is there for a reason, if you are relying on PID adder to fill the gap between your base and airflow adder then you're doing it wrong. The idea is to set your boost target to a value that your vehicle is capable of achieving rather than just maxing it out.

 

[wheela]

Timeout value is 2.55 seconds. It's maxed out in the code so increasing the timer isn't possible. You can just alter the threshold so the timer never starts though.

The logic looks at the boost error and the wastegate PID adder amount and if the wastegate adder exceeds a certain level based on the boost error then it triggers an error that disables PID adder completely. The threshold for the error condition decreases as the boost error increases so that's why you see it more often when people have a boost leak as they are vastly down from target.

Increasing this value doesn't fix anything though, it just hides the problem. This diagnostic is there for a reason, if you are relying on PID adder to fill the gap between your base and airflow adder then you're doing it wrong. The idea is to set your boost target to a value that your vehicle is capable of achieving rather than just maxing it out.

Is the threshold just for underboost, or will it also trigger for overboost? Just curious.

I noticed in this thread that when people re-enabled their PID that they'd consistently overboost, and my thought was to reduce the I factor to reduce offset.

 

[carabuser]

Is the threshold just for underboost, or will it also trigger for overboost? Just curious.

I noticed in this thread that when people re-enabled their PID that they'd consistently overboost, and my thought was to reduce the I factor to reduce offset.

Same for both under and over.

 

[Dyyd]

Timeout value is 2.55 seconds. It's maxed out in the code so increasing the timer isn't possible. You can just alter the threshold so the timer never starts though.

The logic looks at the boost error and the wastegate PID adder amount and if the wastegate adder exceeds a certain level based on the boost error then it triggers an error that disables PID adder completely. The threshold for the error condition decreases as the boost error increases so that's why you see it more often when people have a boost leak as they are vastly down from target.

Increasing this value doesn't fix anything though, it just hides the problem. This diagnostic is there for a reason, if you are relying on PID adder to fill the gap between your base and airflow adder then you're doing it wrong. The idea is to set your boost target to a value that your vehicle is capable of achieving rather than just maxing it out.

Yeah I dont run in to this often anymore after adjusting base & adder accordingly. It requires a damn lot of tweaking and logging and tweaking to get everything right when running flexfuel with 5-85% ethanol spread and having outside temperatures of -30c (-22f) to +35c (95f). With properly set up pid it corrects very well. What sucks about this is that it is silent and you dont get any notification except the car is slow until restart.

 

[carabuser]

Yeah I dont run in to this often anymore after adjusting base & adder accordingly. It requires a damn lot of tweaking and logging and tweaking to get everything right when running flexfuel with 5-85% ethanol spread and having outside temperatures of -30c (-22f) to +35c (95f). With properly set up pid it corrects very well. What sucks about this is that it is silent and you dont get any notification except the car is slow until restart.

You can rescale the WGDC base table to avoid the need for a lot of PID. You can stretch the MAF out to 450g/s and the boost factor up to 2.4 which covers you up to about 20PSI.

I always keep the adder table quite low. Relying on it to meet target makes the car feel less responsive.