Wagner Evo 3 Intercooler Review Coming Soon
- Thread starter matreyia
- Start date
Where's "running 21psi tapering to 17psi up top", at your altitude put you on the comp map...
@gmx
This was at sea level. FWIW on 2 other similarly specced cars I've tuned here running ADE650s IATs would only increase 40F above ambient at the end of a multi-gear pull, so there's huge difference in intercooler effectiveness believe me.
@Rob09msport
I am currently running a Phoenix Race FMIC, which is performing extremely well, so well in fact that I am considering going with something smaller/lighter to better suit my purposes, as the very idea of having a 30lb mass so far forward bothers me - so I was thinking of either a (custom) tube and fin 7" non-stepped FMIC, or a custom water2air core in place of the charge pipe, with an OEM F85 heat exchanger + pump up front...
Lastly, I don't think there's any significant difference in face air velocity between the 135 and 335 front bumper covers.
This was at sea level. FWIW on 2 other similarly specced cars I've tuned here running ADE650s IATs would only increase 40F above ambient at the end of a multi-gear pull, so there's huge difference in intercooler effectiveness believe me.
@Rob09msport
I am currently running a Phoenix Race FMIC, which is performing extremely well, so well in fact that I am considering going with something smaller/lighter to better suit my purposes, as the very idea of having a 30lb mass so far forward bothers me - so I was thinking of either a (custom) tube and fin 7" non-stepped FMIC, or a custom water2air core in place of the charge pipe, with an OEM F85 heat exchanger + pump up front...
Lastly, I don't think there's any significant difference in face air velocity between the 135 and 335 front bumper covers.
You'd definitely want a 650HP core to be effective when the shaft speeds are way off the compressor island. We are using 650, 1000 HP ICs on stock turbos that do what, 42-44lb/min? This doesn't sound ludicrous to anyone? 
@Hydra Performance Keen to see your custom tube and fin. If you go CNC'd quick disconnects welded on the endtanks, I'm interested. I see no reason to go large for no reason. Mass and placement of CoG is a common concern for us.
@Hydra Performance Keen to see your custom tube and fin. If you go CNC'd quick disconnects welded on the endtanks, I'm interested. I see no reason to go large for no reason. Mass and placement of CoG is a common concern for us.
@gmx
Just so you know, the Wagner Evo2 Comp on upgraded twins running 21psi flat would give an IAT rise of 60F during a multi-gear pull. Still underwhelming to say the least. Looking inside the core, it is very clear to see that the fin spacing isn't dense at all, on par with your typical chinesium core, and is likely the reason for its poor performance (+ light weight). Oh, plus the fact that its just 5.75" thick...
Intercooler likely isn't happening for another couple of months at least, have too much on my plate right now, and even then I would just use simple hose clamp connections on the endtanks to keep cost down. If its good enough for Group N rally cars, its certainly good enough for me
Just so you know, the Wagner Evo2 Comp on upgraded twins running 21psi flat would give an IAT rise of 60F during a multi-gear pull. Still underwhelming to say the least. Looking inside the core, it is very clear to see that the fin spacing isn't dense at all, on par with your typical chinesium core, and is likely the reason for its poor performance (+ light weight). Oh, plus the fact that its just 5.75" thick...
Intercooler likely isn't happening for another couple of months at least, have too much on my plate right now, and even then I would just use simple hose clamp connections on the endtanks to keep cost down. If its good enough for Group N rally cars, its certainly good enough for me
Rob@RBTurbo
Lieutenant
@gmx
Just so you know, the Wagner Evo2 Comp on upgraded twins running 21psi flat would give an IAT rise of 60F during a multi-gear pull. Still underwhelming to say the least. Looking inside the core, it is very clear to see that the fin spacing isn't dense at all, on par with your typical chinesium core, and is likely the reason for its poor performance (+ light weight). Oh, plus the fact that its just 5.75" thick...
Intercooler likely isn't happening for another couple of months at least, have too much on my plate right now, and even then I would just use simple hose clamp connections on the endtanks to keep cost down. If its good enough for Group N rally cars, its certainly good enough for me
Any chance the turbos were just on their last legs and thus not performing at their best? Even if not the OEM's are likely are blowing a ton of heat in the flow ranges you were in, even worse if pushing that hard on OE inlets.
Don't get me wrong would be nice to have an Intercooler to compensate regardless but there are a lot of variables to consider, assuming you didn't already check it out vs. another intercooler in the same environment.
All I've seen over the years seems to point to Wagner Evo 2 comp being a top flight intercooler, but if not would be nice to hear some others who have seen the same poor results.
Overall I tend to agree with Rob09 here in that the Wagner Evo 3 should be a perfect Intercooler setup for most higher powered hybrids or ST's. Looking forward to the feedback from the OP.
Rob
Is everyone using the Competition? Those logs posted earlier have a lot of IAT movement that my Perf doesn't. That's to be expected, but seems a lot worse that I expected. It was mentioned before about Comp not looking like traditional tube/fin, they never have to me from the outside either. Those extrusions must be comparatively huge (and lower in count accordingly), I'd love to see what the fin structure looks like in them if anyone can get a camera in. Added size of the Evo 3 will at least add some more.
Random 19-21psi 3rd gear log in Texas with 101F ambient and heated Evo 2 Perf (3rd or 4th pull). Starting IAT 129F, ending 122F and staying there. Once IC is warmed up, 122F IAT was about as good as it got any time it's over 100F ambient.
Dinan is Spearco core BTW and the Evo 2 is really not much larger than it. The main Evo 2 core is about the same size as the Dinan core with another ~3x3.5" core on top for the step. Construction/density is nearly identical inside and out. Evo 2 is noticeably better for rise/time, but I think most of that came from the sheet metal->thick cast end tank change. They are extremely similar and I seriously doubt the small step core outside of air flow is having that much impact.
Some diff is surely attributed to temps, not sure how much can be attributed to dropping the stock connectors, but almost seems like it has to be a factor. They are definitely solid connectors, but have to believe they really are somewhat limiting at some point (maybe not so much on stock turbos). Then again, one or a few logs don't make it so. So long as I don't have problems with the silicone connectors (and haven't in the 2.5 years they've been in), I don't particularly care. May not prove they are helping, but they're not hurting either.
Random 19-21psi 3rd gear log in Texas with 101F ambient and heated Evo 2 Perf (3rd or 4th pull). Starting IAT 129F, ending 122F and staying there. Once IC is warmed up, 122F IAT was about as good as it got any time it's over 100F ambient.
People that run turbos outside reasonable ranges cause their own heat issues. The Comp ICs seem to leave something to be desired as it is, but anyone that "needs" a race IC on stock turbos to keep IATs reasonable, doesn't have an IC problem. They have an expectation and too much boost (and probably DCI/hot side inlet) problem. ICs get blamed for things owners do all the time.
Dinan is Spearco core BTW and the Evo 2 is really not much larger than it. The main Evo 2 core is about the same size as the Dinan core with another ~3x3.5" core on top for the step. Construction/density is nearly identical inside and out. Evo 2 is noticeably better for rise/time, but I think most of that came from the sheet metal->thick cast end tank change. They are extremely similar and I seriously doubt the small step core outside of air flow is having that much impact.
Empirical for sure and maybe not that fair given the temp diff. Same map, last log on the Dinan, first log on the Evo 2 Comp that replaced it, but they were 2 days apart.
Some diff is surely attributed to temps, not sure how much can be attributed to dropping the stock connectors, but almost seems like it has to be a factor. They are definitely solid connectors, but have to believe they really are somewhat limiting at some point (maybe not so much on stock turbos). Then again, one or a few logs don't make it so. So long as I don't have problems with the silicone connectors (and haven't in the 2.5 years they've been in), I don't particularly care. May not prove they are helping, but they're not hurting either.
@hydra why not go ade again if you saw good results? I had multiple tuners say was the best. When I was shopping i went from almost going er to then cross shopping cpe and atm then wedge said ade and as much as everyone had their so called best the ade was the only one that everyone either said was the best or as good as what they ran lol.
I personally see temps drop second I hit boost and usually get within 10 degrees ambient on 1 gear and 3 gear pull puts me at ambient or slightly under or over. I know it's not really under but according to my sensor it's under prob to do with mirror heating fron sun or something.
I personally see temps drop second I hit boost and usually get within 10 degrees ambient on 1 gear and 3 gear pull puts me at ambient or slightly under or over. I know it's not really under but according to my sensor it's under prob to do with mirror heating fron sun or something.
Just out of context. gmx seemed to imply the stock style connection was superior (and potentially dropping them for larger bead/silicone connections was a step down for no improvement in flow). I don't care about the connection style one way or the other so long as silicone doesn't pop off, wear/tear through, etc. I was simply saying I never had a problem with with silicone/bead and that there are indicated gains by getting rid of stock connectors.
MOMENT OF TRUTH. See logs.
Summary.
73°F Dinan intercooler pull from deadstop in normal drive mode. Temps went to 147°f.
77°F Wagner Evo 3 same pull in normal drive mode. Temps never went over 97°F.
Holy mother of god... Germans know their vorsprung durch technik.
Summary.
73°F Dinan intercooler pull from deadstop in normal drive mode. Temps went to 147°f.
77°F Wagner Evo 3 same pull in normal drive mode. Temps never went over 97°F.
Holy mother of god... Germans know their vorsprung durch technik.
Why we run tube and fin in oz is because of the high ambient temps, bar and plate just heats up and stays heated up.
They run great numbers on the dyno but when on the track they just cant compete with a well designed tube and fin.
This is my last run at the track last year with our custom tube and fin, this is heat soaked and waiting for 20 mins to have a run.
starts at 100f
They run great numbers on the dyno but when on the track they just cant compete with a well designed tube and fin.
This is my last run at the track last year with our custom tube and fin, this is heat soaked and waiting for 20 mins to have a run.
starts at 100f
Good stuff!
I'll likely install the Wagner Evo3 after this year's One Lap of America (May 4-11). The VRSF 7' HD is definitely an improvement over the very large bar and plate ic I had previously, but I'd still like to try to further reduce the increase in IAT during long sessions on track.
I have some concern about impeding flow to the radiator (and increasing coolant temps), but apparently tube and fin has better air through flow than bar and plate.
Neil
I'll likely install the Wagner Evo3 after this year's One Lap of America (May 4-11). The VRSF 7' HD is definitely an improvement over the very large bar and plate ic I had previously, but I'd still like to try to further reduce the increase in IAT during long sessions on track.
I have some concern about impeding flow to the radiator (and increasing coolant temps), but apparently tube and fin has better air through flow than bar and plate.
Neil
I only noticed a few degrees more on coolant...well within operating temps from previously. It is a tight fit though...i will post photos soon.
I'm showing results from our custom tube and fin which is huge compared to the wagner and until someone does a few tests
I wouldn't take the results I've shown and mistake them that they would be the same.
I wouldn't take the results I've shown and mistake them that they would be the same.
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