Propulsive Dynamics Closer to Launching Mass Production of 6HP21/19 Upgrade

[AUbeast86]

Here's a progress update on all of my betas I posted the other day over on one of the other sites...

Hey guys, just a progress report. My apologies for the lack of additional feedback thus far, some of my guys are experiencing life interruptions so it's totally understandable.

One of the betas blew his engine shortly after getting the trans installed but was reporting very positive initial results beforehand. He's since taken possession of another donor engine but has gotten behind at his shop since his customers come first. Again, completely understandable. He'll have data as soon as he's able.

Another beta just returned from deployment in Afghanistan and as soon as he got his trans installed, he left town again. He's about to install a Motiv ST when he gets back this weekend so performance data from him will be in as soon as he's back on-line again. Initial feedback from him was very positive as well.

Dimitris, who posted his initial feedback in this thread, has also had a run of setbacks with recording data due to his personal business so he hasn't been able to post more results as soon as he'd have liked to by now. He's eager to do so but as with all things in life, priorities take precedence and I fully support all of them through all of their difficulties.

Eric Hale will be the last beta to come on-line since VAC is still telling him it will be at least 8 more weeks until they finish his engine. ETA unknown.

Regarding our trans, it's still performing flawlessly. I've put over 1,000 aggressive miles on it now and it has fully adapted to the new parameters. It shifts and feels as if BMW purpose-built this trans for 700whp. As others have stated, the trans is significantly faster through the gears with what feels like zero slip compared to the stock box. I continue to be extremely pleased with how its performing as an aggressive daily driver.

Hope this update helps. Stay tuned.

 

[AUbeast86]

Here's some feedback one of my betas posted on one of the other sites...

"Well, great news for everyone here. I picked up my car yesterday from European Auto Source in Anaheim, CA.

There are already some quite noticeable difference right from the get go.
Keep in mind I am going easy still even though adaptation process is complete, I want this to be running as smoothly as possible before going full retard on the turbo side.

1) Very noticeable change in shift dynamic.
-Roll in on second from a stop isn't as sloppy from stock trans, requires more pedal input to start rolling
-Shifts are buttery. Fluid. There seemed to be a power loss on the stock trans at upshift, Where you'd notice power drop then jerk forward. No longer..
these shifts occur so quickly that you almost don't even notice the shift.
2) Change in low gear behavior
-1st/2nd have a completely different feel. As do all gears really, doesn't feel like the trans is in a constant state of slip anymore. But low gear pull is
completely different. Did map 1 WOT pull in 2nd and damn near blew my tires off cause all they wanted to do is spin. (Normally had at 15psi to KEEP traction).
3) Change in the exhaust note
-Not that this may matter to anyone, but it's something I noticed. Exhaust note has significantly changed. Probably due to the fact there's increased load throughout the system. Couple upshifts from 2->3 have had a sound similar to that of a DCT fart, very interesting to say the least. Lol.
4) Change in how the trans behaves when placed into park
-When being placed into park the car barely moved forward or back, even when on an incline. Stock would have very noticeable play. Does this make a difference? Maybe to some, my car is fairly low so for me it's a big deal when parking I don't continue moving into the curb if I get too close. (Yes I always e-brake)

These are just some early changes for you guys. Everyday driving scenario. I put about 30 miles mostly normal driving yesterday so information will keep coming as I continue to drive and get everything worked in. Then I'll be creating a new thread with some review info, real world application, rolling/standing/etc with videos, logs, and GoPro footage.

Before then, I'll add to this thread as I slowly acclimate everything.

Cheers!"

 

[AUbeast86]

Another feedback post from another site...

"There's a few up and running. We just finished 1 here locally. Its everything you'd expect in a real tranny upgrade and then some. It has a solid shift at 7100. The car that its currently installed is a OEM TT running about 450whp E60 tune. We havent really messed with it because its going under the knife this weekend to get a Motiv ST kit. So we installed the transmission did the adaptations procedure and basically did some shake down and messing around pulls and runs. It shifts much higher than the OEM TCU flash (7100) and also feels like a DCT when it hits gears. The real test will be soon after the ST kit gets installed. So far drivability feels like a really sporty auto, something you'd expect from a higher end car but it doesnt take away from comfort or everyday driving."

 

[doublespaces]

Also I saw this posted once regarding the torque converter:

...A converter built with race application frictions and steels from ZF. Upgraded seals are also installed that address the issues resulting from the increased fluid temperatures in the TC under high load situations.

So I assume this is the same upgrade you mention in the first post?

 

[AUbeast86]

Also I saw this posted once regarding the torque converter:



So I assume this is the same upgrade you mention in the first post?

Correct.

 

[nitemare]

Sign me up Jason for your #1 Group Buy spot!!

 

[NOBLNKR]

I saw that you say the transmission will be able to support 700whp which is awesome, but coming from the e36 world torque is the main issue with transmission. Having a transmission that can hold 700whp, but it would be great if it could hold the same amount of torque. So how much torque does this built trans hold? Sorry if you already answered this.

 

[Patrick Curtis]

I saw that you say the transmission will be able to support 700whp which is awesome, but coming from the e36 world torque is the main issue with transmission. Having a transmission that can hold 700whp, but it would be great if it could hold the same amount of torque. So how much torque does this built trans hold? Sorry if you already answered this.

These motors Make about the same tq as hp. Id like to scoop one of these for sure but need to finish the race car first

 

[AUbeast86]

I saw that you say the transmission will be able to support 700whp which is awesome, but coming from the e36 world torque is the main issue with transmission. Having a transmission that can hold 700whp, but it would be great if it could hold the same amount of torque. So how much torque does this built trans hold? Sorry if you already answered this.

Of course, you are absolutely right. We fully understand that torque is what kills transmissions. The "700whp" was just for conversation sake. I stated in Post #1 that we have rated this transmission at 30% over the known capacity of the stock configuration. If we agree that 550wtq is what the stock unit is currently handling, then it's safe to say that this unit is capable of holding 715wtq.

That 30% also includes increased spectrum of usage and margin of safety in that we conducted destructive testing on one of the first units. We saw what it took to cause a catastrophic failure then backed that number down a few magnitudes so you can safely operate within the 30%. Of course it's your decision if you want to push the limits beyond the 30% but you do so at your own risk. As more data comes in from the betas, that 30% could very well turn into 35% based on in-the-field testing.

Our Alpha unit is currently running 24psi on a VM top mount with a 6266 and I have already put 1,000 very aggressive miles on it. However, my assignment with the alpha was only to gauge and monitor shift quality and adaptation behaviors under different daily driving conditions. That includes in getting into a few dogfights on the highway was well

I hope that answers some of your questions.

 

[AUbeast86]

OP edited to include Group-Buy info.

 

[nitemare]

OP edited to include Group-Buy info.

Jason I think you should also add the group buy list to your OP.....with me at the #1 spot I might add.

 

[AUbeast86]

Jason I think you should also add the group buy list to your OP.....with me at the #1 spot I might add.

Done

 

[08_335i]

Add me to the list.

 

[doublespaces]

Jason, assuming your PR or transmission results don't have some kind of implosion, add me to your list also. I'm on board pending the incoming results of your testers. I have a single kit I won't be able to enjoy without it.

 

[AUbeast86]

Jason, assuming your PR or transmission results don't have some kind of implosion, add me to your list also. I'm on board pending the incoming results of your testers. I have a single kit I won't be able to enjoy without it.

Agree. Deposits won't be requested, of course, until there's solid quantifiable data out there. Each customer's comfort level to how much data they need to see beforehand will be the determining factor, however, so this would be more of a "feeler" group before the buy.

 

[Cheezy]

Any thoughts for the xi, or did you decide the front diff is too weak to handle it?

 

[AUbeast86]

Any thoughts for the xi, or did you decide the front diff is too weak to handle it?

This upgrade applies to the Xi as well, just not the front differential yet. We are in the very early stages of addressing that.

 

[Cheezy]

This upgrade applies to the Xi as well, just not the front differential yet. We are in the very early stages of addressing that.

Sweet, maybe some day I'll get to that point in my build about the time you figure out the diff. If you need a beta for that I'm willing

 

[AUbeast86]

Sweet, maybe some day I'll get to that point in my build about the time you figure out the diff. If you need a beta for that I'm willing

We'll look forward to it

 

[braddman]

Please add me to the group buy list. Brad D.