N54 Stock DME Flex Fuel

[fmorelli]

Quoted from thread, What are the limits of the stock fuel system on a E85 mix:

You should check out the flex fuel threads for more info. But the basics of it is you pick 2 different tunes - OTS or custom and assign them to a low E85 tune and high E85 tune. The flex fuel module simply interprets between them as the E content varies between them.

Jim

I'm wondering how this will work, custom tuning wise. Standard pump gas is typically E10, right? So we'll first work an pump gas tune, then we need a "high" E tune? Draining the tank sucks, so this is a two dyno day exercise for those doing it on rollers?

The next question, how "accurate" is the interpretation - say versus tuning at an interpreted point? Is it small enough that we don't care? Is there a strategy for setting the high "E" tune so the distance from E10 is not as far (i.e., E50 for high, so variance goes up 35 points and down 40 points?)

I don't believe I've seen any specific guidance on tuning this setup, yet. I'm wondering how tuners are going to work this out. Maybe I've missed it, but I'd love to see a couple page "tutorial" that walks through how the system works, and some initial best practice considerations. Seems like this would be useful info to produce while we wait for the software to get released, not to mention having it out ahead of time lets the tuning folks, et cetera, get clued in.

Filippo

 

[NoQuarter]

What I am doing at the moment:

I am on stock turbos but plan to tune for 100% E85 because I have no desire to switch between pumps at the station.

1) I am at ~E60 for the initial tuning
2) I will continue to add more E85 approaching 100% to dial in the tune best we can based on my HPFP, etc
3) When the flex fuel module goes in, I should be dialed in for 100% E85 and that will be my high E map, my low E map will be the OTS I been running all along. When I get back down to no E85 at some point then I will dial in the Low E better than OTS

4) As I learn more about how all this shakes out, looking at how I want to handle getting more fuel.

 

[E90TommyB]

So is May 26 still the expected release date for the mhd module?

 

[fmorelli]

I've gone to tracking the release on the Bulgar Calendar, and am currently praying twice a day to Jooseppi Mikkola. Soon it will come, I am told.

Filippo

 

[langsbr]

So is May 26 still the expected release date for the mhd module?

We'll know on May 27th!

 

[fmorelli]

T minus 4.

 

[matreyia]

T minus 4.

I am hoping that MHD will have clear explanation on the process. A question I have for example would be: "can/should we install the flex fuel module and the MHD ethanol sensor option and hook up the sensor if we don't have a tune yet... for example, we only have a 93 octane tune and no e85 tune".

Anyone who knows this answer is welcome to chime in.

 

[veer90]

T-minus 3

 

[Jake@MHD]

for example, we only have a 93 octane tune and no e85 tune

In this case you can run your bin through the provided tool to format it for flex fuel (it will copy your 93oct table data to the E85 tables), flash this and run it. You'll be able to log ethanol content, but obviously you would not want to fill up with any E85 until the E85 tables were tuned accordingly.

Ultimately it comes down to the advise of your tuner. The MHD module is another tool in the toolbox for skilled tuners (or use one of the OTS MHD Flex Fuel maps if that is suitable for you). MHD Flex Fuel works the same as it does on many other platforms, so if you have a competent tuner they should have no issue picking it up. When I sent the files to Justin (@V8bait) for use on the PR live build car, he didn't need any explanation as to how it worked or how to set it up. If your tuner does not fall into that category, I would look for a new one

 

[blisstik]

Lol at the countdown. You guys realize if the app was already submitted it will be up to Google.

 

[veer90]

The countdown is us holding Jake / Martial accountable to the date that was stated... I don't really know or care for the behind the scenes stuff that needs to happen.

 

[langsbr]

The countdown is us holding Jake / Martial accountable to the date that was stated... I don't really know or care for the behind the scenes stuff that needs to happen.

LOL less accountable and more just for our own fun. If they don't deliver it by the date they said, what will happen? We'll just have to wait longer. Granted this is the first time there has been a quantifiable timeframe given, but I'm not holding my breath for it on the "specified" date. I say we start an over/under wager. Maybe set it at Aug 1 - who has over, and who has under?

 

[fmorelli]

Maybe set it at Aug 1

Hahaha ... either a cynic, seasoned veteran, or both! lol

Filippo

 

[matreyia]

In this case you can run your bin through the provided tool to format it for flex fuel (it will copy your 93oct table data to the E85 tables), flash this and run it. You'll be able to log ethanol content, but obviously you would not want to fill up with any E85 until the E85 tables were tuned accordingly.

Ultimately it comes down to the advise of your tuner. The MHD module is another tool in the toolbox for skilled tuners (or use one of the OTS MHD Flex Fuel maps if that is suitable for you). MHD Flex Fuel works the same as it does on many other platforms, so if you have a competent tuner they should have no issue picking it up. When I sent the files to Justin (@V8bait) for use on the PR live build car, he didn't need any explanation as to how it worked or how to set it up. If your tuner does not fall into that category, I would look for a new one

So are you saying that if I don't have an e85 custom tune yet, I can activate the MHD ethanol module, then flash with OTS MHD e85 tune and be good to go? Even if I don't have e85 in the tank at that time?

 

[Jake@MHD]

So are you saying that if I don't have an e85 custom tune yet, I can activate the MHD ethanol module, then flash with OTS MHD e85 tune and be good to go? Even if I don't have e85 in the tank at that time?

Are you using an OTS pump map currently? MHD OTS maps will only be if you are running your pump map and ethanol map from the v8 OTS.

 

[matreyia]

Are you using an OTS pump map currently? MHD OTS maps will only be if you are running your pump map and ethanol map from the v8 OTS.

What I am asking is, IF a person/anyone does not have a custom e85 map yet, and that person installs the software and hardware of the flex fuel "system/kit", does that mean that the user must choose the OTS e85 MHD flash... or does that person simply not have to do a thing and can keep on using a normal OTS map or a custom 93 octane map. Basically, if a person does not have custom e85 tune yet and installs the kit, will it mess up the car if he keeps on using a non-ethanol old map.

OR...

do you recommend not installing anything until the user has both a custom e85 map and a custom 93 octane map already to go?

 

[Jake@MHD]

What I am asking is, IF a person/anyone does not have a custom e85 map yet, and that person installs the software and hardware of the flex fuel "system/kit", does that mean that the user must choose the OTS e85 MHD flash... or does that person simply not have to do a thing and can keep on using a normal OTS map or a custom 93 octane map. Basically, if a person does not have custom e85 tune yet and installs the kit, will it mess up the car if he keeps on using a non-ethanol old map.

OR...

do you recommend not installing anything until the user has both a custom e85 map and a custom 93 octane map already to go?

You should not install the ECA kit until you either have a base Flex map from your tuner, can make a base flex map yourself, or will run an MHD OTS Flex map. Car will run, but you will have a check engine light.

If you can get a bin file from your tuner (unlocked), you will be able to run it through the bin format tool I wrote that will be released with the xdfs. This will alleviate the above until you can get your ethanol tune.

 

[dyezak]

What I am asking is, IF a person/anyone does not have a custom e85 map yet, and that person installs the software and hardware of the flex fuel "system/kit", does that mean that the user must choose the OTS e85 MHD flash... or does that person simply not have to do a thing and can keep on using a normal OTS map or a custom 93 octane map. Basically, if a person does not have custom e85 tune yet and installs the kit, will it mess up the car if he keeps on using a non-ethanol old map.

OR...

do you recommend not installing anything until the user has both a custom e85 map and a custom 93 octane map already to go?

There are off the shelf flex fuel tunes that will be available for people in your shoes.

 

[matreyia]

You should not install the ECA kit until you either have a base Flex map from your tuner, can make a base flex map yourself, or will run an MHD OTS Flex map. Car will run, but you will have a check engine light.

If you can get a bin file from your tuner (unlocked), you will be able to run it through the bin format tool I wrote that will be released with the xdfs. This will alleviate the above until you can get your ethanol tune.

I think all this "flex" nomenclature is confusing me. Basically you are saying, there is a special map, no matter if it is e85 or 93 octane that is specific to the Flex Fuel system and one should only create this special "flex" specific map in two flavors before activating the system.

And in order to run the car without SES lights or check engine warnings, I should inform or request an unlocked map from my tuner: Twisted Tuning, then run it through your program to convert it to the "flex" format and then reflash after activation of all system components.

Since I am still trying to tune my car to completion, I should refrain from activation. Only after tuning completion and attaining the unlocked completed tune and converting shall I reflash with all systems activated.

Then after that, it's a matter of getting another custom tune for e85 and converting that and importing into the active system? Or does MHD's upcoming ethanol option take two maps natively and spits out the required data in a single map for the DME?

Just curious...

Oh, also, when you say OTS flex fuel maps on MHD... you talking about the e85 mix maps? or some future flex fuel map that is coming soon? There are three ethanol maps that are not flex fuel labeled.

 

[The Convert]

I think all this "flex" nomenclature is confusing me. Basically you are saying, there is a special map, no matter if it is e85 or 93 octane that is specific to the Flex Fuel system and one should only create this special "flex" specific map in two flavors before activating the system.

And in order to run the car without SES lights or check engine warnings, I should inform or request an unlocked map from my tuner: Twisted Tuning, then run it through your program to convert it to the "flex" format and then reflash after activation of all system components.

Since I am still trying to tune my car to completion, I should refrain from activation. Only after tuning completion and attaining the unlocked completed tune and converting shall I reflash with all systems activated.

Then after that, it's a matter of getting another custom tune for e85 and converting that and importing into the active system? Or does MHD's upcoming ethanol option take two maps natively and spits out the required data in a single map for the DME?

Just curious...

Oh, also, when you say OTS flex fuel maps on MHD... you talking about the e85 mix maps? or some future flex fuel map that is coming soon? There are three ethanol maps that are not flex fuel labeled.

You have 3 options to run the flex fuel setup.

1.Run the "OTS MHD flex fuel map"
2.Make your own flex fuel map
3.have your tuner make your flex fuel map

If you're this confused, #2 should not be considered.

Some advice...stop asking so many questions at a time. You're further confusing yourself, and the answers you get. Just ask Twisted for step by step instructions when the mhd module is released and do exactly as he says.