N54 crank hub issue - power level?

[kayzrx82]

Guys honestly I don't see a problem with Rob asking those questions. Yes, there has been back and forth bickering between vtt and Rob in the past, but I had the same questions and was one of the first to ask them when the release thread was posted. I didn't ask them out of malice or spite towards any vender. The idea is brilliant, but you do have to provide data ,photos etc to validate a product. You can't just claim it does so and so and broke your test rig without any photos , technical information etc. Some break away torque numbers and photos in the beginning would have clarified alot of these questions and this long thread of back and forth bickering wouldn't have occurred.

I don't think anyones bashing the spline lock. Other venders have released products with claims only to fail later on in real world testing. It is hard to simulate the forces on the hub without the motor actually running. Applying a twisiting force alone on the hub does not simulate what is going on at the hub on a running motor under load. Harmonics , heat cycles, varying forces, and varying sudden loads from the serpentine drive is not accounted for in the model.

From an engineering standpoint this is way better than the stock setup when coupled with the bolt capture, no doubt about that. Its also easier to install , which is a plus. Just some critical info was left out on the product release that left questions and would leave questions to anyone who has a background in engineering. Props to vtt for coming up with this. To Rob's statement about the splines working if they were straight, it would work with straight teeth as well given how the crank is being dug into when applying this. There are numerous interference fit applications using straight cut teeth to acheive locking when applying a twisiting force to 2 parts. It sucks I missed out on the Black Friday deal ...... Had a ton of work the past month, cars been on the back burner.

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

Guys honestly I don't see a problem with Rob asking those questions. Yes, there has been back and forth bickering between vtt and Rob in the past, but I had the same questions and was one of the first to ask them when the release thread was posted. I didn't ask them out of malice or spite towards any vender. The idea is brilliant, but you do have to provide data ,photos etc to validate a product. You can't just claim it does so and so and broke your test rig without any photos , technical information etc. Some break away torque numbers and photos in the beginning would have clarified alot of these questions and this long thread of back and forth bickering wouldn't have occurred.

I don't think anyones bashing the spline lock. Other venders have released products with claims only to fail later on in real world testing. It is hard to simulate the forces on the hub without the motor actually running. Applying a twisiting force alone on the hub does not simulate what is going on at the hub on a running motor under load. Harmonics , heat cycles, varying forces, and varying sudden loads from the serpentine drive is not accounted for in the model.

From an engineering standpoint this is way better than the stock setup when coupled with the bolt capture, no doubt about that. Its also easier to install , which is a plus. Just some critical info was left out on the product release that left questions and would leave questions to anyone who has a background in engineering. Props to vtt for coming up with this. To Rob's statement about the splines working if they were straight, it would work with straight teeth as well given how the crank is being dug into when applying this. There are numerous interference fit applications using straight cut teeth to acheive locking when applying a twisiting force to 2 parts. It sucks I missed out on the Black Friday deal ...... Had a ton of work the past month, cars been on the back burner.

Cheers to you sir- one of the few true assets to these forums.

Rob

 

[The Convert]

And finally he sees the light! Not trying to be condescending at app, but I'm actually kind of proud that RB is able to give props where they're due - aside from the minor complaints, but I'll take it.

Personally I think the angled splines are superior in design to what straight splines would do considering we're dealing with something (the crank) spinning in the opposite direction of how the splines are angled, but that's just simple logic and conjecture. Considering VTT went through multiple variations in design before the public release I wouldn't be surprised if they had tested both, but that's something @Chris@VargasTurboTech could answer for you.

You, uh, got somethin’ on your nose.

 

[Hydra Performance]

I just posted pics of my own hub fix solution in post #103 of my build thread if anybody is interested.

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

I just posted pics of my own hub fix solution in post #103 of my build thread if anybody is interested.

Saw that. Looks great. Don't you have the SPLOCK too? Why not use it?

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

You, uh, got somethin’ on your nose.

That guy has got to be the largest twit on the forum these days, blocked him months ago but on the email it shows you quoted him. He's always wanting to interject with his pointless thoughts and interpretations... a total lost cause who is oblivious to reality.

 

[Panzerfaust]

You, uh, got somethin’ on your nose.

I know you hate anything VTT, but I'm certainly not brown nosing them. Let me point out the fact that I run MMP turbos and inlets, have a Motiv tune, have VS parts, PSP parts, and had the RB external setup until recently - all direct competition of VTT with a history of bad blood.

I dont give a shit who makes a product if it's a good product, especially if its something the platform doesnt have already.

My frustration was with Rob continuing to do his blind little skirting dance, not with anyone questioning what VTT has done for actual information like @kayzrx82

 

[The Convert]

I know you hate anything VTT, but I'm certainly not brown nosing them. Let me point out the fact that I run MMP turbos and inlets, have a Motiv tune, have VS parts, PSP parts, and had the RB external setup until recently - all direct competition of VTT with a history of bad blood.

I dont give a shit who makes a product if it's a good product, especially if its something the platform doesnt have already.

My frustration was with Rob continuing to do his blind little skirting dance, not with anyone questioning what VTT has done for actual information like @kayzrx82

You couldn’t be further from the truth on almost everything you’ve said. I have ZERO bias for or against VTT. I’m all for people bringing new products to market. I do not, however, like a lack of information, or misinformation. Rob, regardless of his past with Tony, has been asking pertinent questions that others were also asking. The only difference is he is more persistent than the other people, and he has a history with Tony.

As far as what you run and whether or not that somehow means your nose ain’t brown...the fact that you’re taking everything your told as gospel without the necessary information being offered up, says that your nose has developed a skid mark on it. It is not bashing to ask questions about how and why the information given is accurate. Information is key to making informed decisions. So, keep that in mind when people request information.

 

[Panzerfaust]

You couldn’t be further from the truth on almost everything you’ve said. I have ZERO bias for or against VTT. I’m all for people bringing new products to market. I do not, however, like a lack of information, or misinformation. Rob, regardless of his past with Tony, has been asking pertinent questions that others were also asking. The only difference is he is more persistent than the other people, and he has a history with Tony.

As far as what you run and whether or not that somehow means your nose ain’t brown...the fact that you’re taking everything your told as gospel without the necessary information being offered up, says that your nose has developed a skid mark on it. It is not bashing to ask questions about how and why the information given is accurate. Information is key to making informed decisions. So, keep that in mind when people request information.

Like I said, I have no problem with people genuinely asking for more information. But to say Rob straight up calling Chris a liar multiple times and throwing shade with a lack of evidence isn't bashing is pretty... well, I'll stick with "wrong" for now because I do respect you.

I certainly don't blindly believe everything a vendor says, no matter who it is or what the product - that was the reason I listed what I run, not to show any specific like or dislike. But in the case of this particular product, I think it's pretty damn easy to see how it would help prevent the hub from spinning. I've said it a hundred times and demonstrated why its blindingly obvious that it would have a large advantage over the stock hub.

If having common sense in addition to an understanding of materials, physics, and mechanics instead of taking the "sky is falling" approach certain parties took (and watch - will still continue to take despite their questions being answered and confirmed by their own team) makes me a brown noser, then I guess that's better than the alternative.

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

Just want to chime in one last time here and say I'm glad the picture was posted. It really helps demonstrate the etching potential of the new hub. And while I realize I'd never be a candidate to be a purchaser (which is ok as I can come up with my own fixes such as Hydra has), I am humble enough to say I'd pass this along to fellow N54 enthusiasts as a viable solution for them.

Being in this business it is important to be able to help our customers make the best possible informed decisions, not only for turbochargers themselves but also for all the surroundings in the supporting mod world as well. As such this is NOT about competition as we have NO desire to ever get into this market, more so it was simply about getting some basic information. Unfortunately these requests were completely ignored not only by me, but from several other intelligent folks out there. As they say, "a picture is worth a thousand words".

Lastly I will add that we hope that VTT can consider making a straight splined setup for future offerings, as we think it could be quite advantageous for all things from initial install to subsequent installs.

Rob

 

[Torgus]

The only problem I have is given how infrequently and without any sort of pattern or cause the hub slips, there is absolutely no way these products can be tested to make a claim of reduced slip. Aside from keying the hub of course. If the claim is made that it has been thoroughly tested and works, then the vendor knows under what conditions the stock setup fails, but aren't sharing that essential information. I'm assuming that isn't the case here.

I'd like to believe, but at this point that's all it is, an exchange of money on the premise of wishful thinking.

This.

I mean if a vendor would just make a guarantee...

 

[The Convert]

Like I said, I have no problem with people genuinely asking for more information. But to say Rob straight up calling Chris a liar multiple times and throwing shade with a lack of evidence isn't bashing is pretty... well, I'll stick with "wrong" for now because I do respect you.

I certainly don't blindly believe everything a vendor says, no matter who it is or what the product - that was the reason I listed what I run, not to show any specific like or dislike. But in the case of this particular product, I think it's pretty damn easy to see how it would help prevent the hub from spinning. I've said it a hundred times and demonstrated why its blindingly obvious that it would have a large advantage over the stock hub.

If having common sense in addition to an understanding of materials, physics, and mechanics instead of taking the "sky is falling" approach certain parties took (and watch - will still continue to take despite their questions being answered and confirmed by their own team) makes me a brown noser, then I guess that's better than the alternative.

Your first paragraph is you making assumptions.

Your second paragraph...no one has denied it would help. The questions have been around how much it will help, and what are the consequences if it fails.

Your third paragraph...no response.

 

[Panzerfaust]

Your first paragraph is you making assumptions.

Your second paragraph...no one has denied it would help. The questions have been around how much it will help, and what are the consequences if it fails.

Your third paragraph...no response.

I'm not sure where the assumptions were in my first paragraph - I would consider saying someone continually misleads and purposely fogs up information (with nothing to back it up in the post, most importantly) is calling them a liar. But I digress, as RB himself has now said even he appreciates the product so it's a moot point hopefully.

2nd paragraph- I think there were several posts made questioning how it would help, but maybe that's just my interpretation and I misunderstood. As far as the other part, fair enough. I understand asking what would happen if it failed, and even wondering how much it would help for people not familiar with the things I mentioned as offering me a good enough understanding - I just thought the latter was pretty obvious to me personally but I should know not everyone is in the same boat on all that.

Whether you think that still makes me a brown noser or not, doesnt really matter to me. As I said before I respect you and what positive things you've contributed to the forums since I've been here, so I'd hope me stating my point of view wouldn't make you think that considering my own contributions. However, we can agree to disagree on some aspects if you want, or I can ignore it if I really come across as a brown nosing prick - Id prefer to maintain a friendly relationship with another knowledgeable member but no skin off my back in the long run if you don't see it the same way I suppose ‍

 

[gmagnus7]

I realized that you're all overthinking this problem. I have a simple solution that will work.

JB WELD

 

[Panzerfaust]

I realized that you're all overthinking this problem. I have a simple solution that will work.

JB WELD

Ya know, if you repackaged the steel JB weld with some frilly packaging and a triple colored or "///M" logo somewhere on there you probably could make a killing in some of the FB groups

 

[The Convert]

I'm not sure where the assumptions were in my first paragraph - I would consider saying someone continually misleads and purposely fogs up information (with nothing to back it up in the post, most importantly) is calling them a liar. But I digress, as RB himself has now said even he appreciates the product so it's a moot point hopefully.

2nd paragraph- I think there were several posts made questioning how it would help, but maybe that's just my interpretation and I misunderstood. As far as the other part, fair enough. I understand asking what would happen if it failed, and even wondering how much it would help for people not familiar with the things I mentioned as offering me a good enough understanding - I just thought the latter was pretty obvious to me personally but I should know not everyone is in the same boat on all that.

Whether you think that still makes me a brown noser or not, doesnt really matter to me. As I said before I respect you and what positive things you've contributed to the forums since I've been here, so I'd hope me stating my point of view wouldn't make you think that considering my own contributions. However, we can agree to disagree on some aspects if you want, or I can ignore it if I really come across as a brown nosing prick - Id prefer to maintain a friendly relationship with another knowledgeable member but no skin off my back in the long run if you don't see it the same way I suppose ‍

Largely I like busting balls. In the end just do you.

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

Largely I like busting balls. In the end just do you.

Good call on the trimmed retort, next best thing to the ignore list.

 

[doublespaces]

Does anyone have this. Link to the other piece that was the other "half" of the solution to the crank bolt capture? Seems like it was made in australia

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

Does anyone have this. Link to the other piece that was the other "half" of the solution to the crank bolt capture? Seems like it was made in australia

Link to what the splined hub? If so it is made in China along with the crank bolt capture. Combined they are about $175 plus shipping, but have to order a bunch of them and who wants to do that anymore.

Rob

 

[doublespaces]

No I was talking about this: https://bmw.spoolstreet.com/threads/pure-performance-motorsport-billet-crankshaft.1234/post-30869