Motiv Flex Fuel vs Bluetooth

[ansch]

So I tested the grey wire out of the fuel-it bluetooth sensor today with a voltmeter. With the car running, I'm not getting any voltage (77mV on the meter). Does this mean I actually have the raw output version? I don't have a scope so can't check for PWM.

If that's the case then I'd need to convert the frequency output to voltage. Been searching around to see what options I have. Obviously I can just get the motive box but being in Australia means shipping cost kills the fun. There are a few homebrew arduino projects that can work if I could be bothered. (I do have a nano lying around). Then I came across this (http://www.p3cars.com/accessories/p3-ethanol-sensor-voltage-adaptor/). Which is meant to be an interface for the P3 gauges but it's exactly what I'd need right? Convert the frequency to 0-5v and tune via mhd to suit.

 

[tortue-xTz]

If you're custom-tuned then you can adjust the voltage to ethanol content to suit, but the OTS mhd maps would be tuned specifically on the motiv I'd assume and there's no way to adjust it at flash time.

Ok, thanks for the clarification !
i'm on OTS map, so this solution is not the right for me at the moment.
But i plan to have a custom tune when the car will be FBO, so i'll keep that in mind if i don't find a fix for my problem until this day

 

[ajm8127]

Then I came across this (http://www.p3cars.com/accessories/p3-ethanol-sensor-voltage-adaptor/). Which is meant to be an interface for the P3 gauges but it's exactly what I'd need right? Convert the frequency to 0-5v and tune via mhd to suit.

The DME reads a voltage which changes with ethanol content. Any device that reads the frequency of the sensor output and changes this into a voltage range should work. So yes, the P3 adapter should work. The Zeitronix ECA-2 should also work as it connects to the sensor and outputs a 0-5 V signal proportional to the ethanol content. The P3 is cheaper, but my point is there are options.

Even if you have an OTS tune, changing the proper map to re-scale the DME input should be easy (assuming you have the correct licenses). There are two maps called "Ethanol Sensor Conversion" and "Ethanol Sensor Conversion Axis" that need to be set appropriately. Here they are already setup for a 0-100% ethanol concentration corresponding to a 0-5 V input (the right most map). If the DME reads a voltage of 2.5 volts, the ethanol concentration would be interpreted as 50%.

https://bmw.spoolstreet.com/attachments/xdf_screencap_1-jpg.1606/

I took that from the first post of this thread.

 

[dwspen01]

I have the Motiv Flex Fuel Module and a P3 Cars Vent gauge and would like to run the 0-5v signal from the Flex Fuel Module to the analog input of the gauge. Which wire on the Motiv module is the 0-5v output signal?

 

[Krampus]

Some notes on my Jb4 Flex Fuel fitment in no particular order:

1. Fitment was according to the Motive Flex Fuel guide with ECA wires connected directly to the DME.
* Fuel- it ECA 0-5v wire connected to DME pin #16
* Red wire goes to orange power wire at the green connector.
* Black wire goes to ground.
* Ignore wires for pin 25 & 10.
* AIC - 6 wire connections not required.

2. Purchased the MHD Flex Fuel flash module licence to automatically detect the BMS Flex map and apply the blending tables.

3. Flashed one of the BMS BEF Flex test maps received from BMS which was already FF formatted and calibrated.
* There is a specific Flex BEF for the Motiv ECA kit and a specific Flex BEF for the Fuelit ECA kit with the appropriate ECA scaling.
* I ran both ECA kits in my testing and was happy with both but settled with the Fuel - it ECA kit.

4. Checked the ECA voltage, ethanol content, fuel interpoloation values at idle in MHD as per Jyamona's recommendations in his Flex Fuel install thread to ensure the BMS Flex BEF map values correspond accordingly.

5. Final step was to splice into the Fuel- it ECA 0-5v wire that is wired into DME pin #16 and share that signal with the Jb4 (wired to pin #2 in the DB25) to be able to read the ethanol content in the JB4 logs directly from the DME.

6. Then test flipping between the MHD monitor gauge and the Jb4 gauge to ensure the Jb4 communicate the same values as MHD such as ethanol content, HP-F and LP-F etc.

7. Its been a great modification. No need to re-flash BEFs when running pump fuel or e85. The MHD Flex Fuel module automatically adjust the BMS Flex tuning directly and seamlessly based on actual ethanol content.

Hello,
A few questions on this.
How do I connect the Fuel- it ECA 0-5v wire to DME pin # 16? JB4 connector, what goes to the little black DME connector and directly to the DME connector? Do I need new connector parts or is this a plug and play type of thing?
Is it compulsory to buy an MHD Flex Fuel flash module license to make this work? The latest back end flash and JB4 firmware is installed. Or do I still need a different kind of back end flash from Terry from BMS? Would anyone have pictures of the installation? If I can make this work myself then I'll put pictures here. I guess I’m not the only one who wants to get a real JB4 fuel-it flex fuel system to work. The basic JB4 fuel-it installation works well and I can see the ethanol content in the blue tooth connect kit app.
Thanks.

 

[Cruizinmax]

Hello,
A few questions on this.
How do I connect the Fuel- it ECA 0-5v wire to DME pin # 16? JB4 connector, what goes to the little black DME connector and directly to the DME connector? Do I need new connector parts or is this a plug and play type of thing?
Is it compulsory to buy an MHD Flex Fuel flash module license to make this work? The latest back end flash and JB4 firmware is installed. Or do I still need a different kind of back end flash from Terry from BMS? Would anyone have pictures of the installation? If I can make this work myself then I'll put pictures here. I guess I’m not the only one who wants to get a real JB4 fuel-it flex fuel system to work. The basic JB4 fuel-it installation works well and I can see the ethanol content in the blue tooth connect kit app.
Thanks.

I can answer the 2nd half of your question. You do still need to purchase the MHD flex fuel "module" as that enables the logic in the DME to interpret the signal you are feeding it from the Motive flex fuel box. You also do need Terry's flex fuel specific backend flash as well that adjusts the tune based on ethanol content. You would NOT need to purchase MHD flex fuel maps though since that's taken care of with Terry's back end flash.

 

[Krampus]

I can answer the 2nd half of your question. You do still need to purchase the MHD flex fuel "module" as that enables the logic in the DME to interpret the signal you are feeding it from the Motive flex fuel box. You also do need Terry's flex fuel specific backend flash as well that adjusts the tune based on ethanol content. You would NOT need to purchase MHD flex fuel maps though since that's taken care of with Terry's back end flash.

I'am using Fuel- it ECA 0-5v not Motive flex fuel box.

 

[fmorelli]

My recollection is that, if you are running a Fuel-It analyzer (so that's a sensor with an ECA) then you need to get the setup that has raw output, not 0-5V, as the Motiv ECA (the module) is expecting a raw signal.

 

[Cruizinmax]

I'am using Fuel- it ECA 0-5v not Motive flex fuel box.

Only difference here is that you need to let Terry know so that the tune is calibrated as the Motiv box doesn't scale 0% ethanol =0v and 100%=5v like the fuel-it does.

You do NOT feed the ecu a raw signal from the ethanol sensor. The DME input used is not setup to read alternating current. The flex fuel box (motiv, fuel-it, or whatever analyzer you chose) is still needed to convert the AC signal to a 0-5v signal.

 

[fmorelli]

Fascinating. I was told the Motiv flex fuel ECA wanted a raw signal. I'm running a Fuel-It bluetooth ECA (and their sensor, obviously) which is raw and connected to my Motiv flex fuel ECA. Works like a charm.

 

[Cruizinmax]

Fascinating. I was told the Motiv flex fuel ECA wanted a raw signal. I'm running a Fuel-It bluetooth ECA (and their sensor, obviously) which is raw and connected to my Motiv flex fuel ECA. Works like a charm.

Sure, if you are using 2 ECA'S then yes both are using/looking for the raw signal from the flex fuel sensor. I had considered getting the fuel it ECA for keeping tabs on E content but ended up just going with the Motiv box. Mainly just for the simplicity of using off the shelf maps. But also with my last car I found it just isn't critical to know exactly what ethanol percentage is in the vehicle at all times.

 

[Krampus]

I like pictures . Is the idea right?
Wire from wire splitter to DME is tricky. I take pin #16 away like in the picture and connect the wire from wire splitter in to the small black connector? JB4 harness take the o-5v signal to the DME?

What I have:
JB4 firmware 32/15/2 and 02/07/19 back end flash (e85 hybrid)
Continental ethanol sensor
Fuel-it ECA
MHD back end flash licence

What i don't have:
MHD N54 flex fuel licence
Proper wire splitter ( I wnt to make clean installation)
Flex fuel back end flash for terry@BMS

Comments?

The car is z4 35i FBO.

 

[Cruizinmax]

View attachment 50880


I like pictures . Is the idea right?
Wire from wire splitter to DME is tricky. I take pin #16 away like in the picture and connect the wire from wire splitter in to the small black connector? JB4 harness take the o-5v signal to the DME?

What I have:
JB4 firmware 32/15/2 and 02/07/19 back end flash (e85 hybrid)
Continental ethanol sensor
Fuel-it ECA
MHD back end flash licence

What i don't have:
MHD N54 flex fuel licence
Proper wire splitter ( I wnt to make clean installation)
Flex fuel back end flash for terry@BMS

Comments?

The car is z4 35i FBO.

My understanding is that splitting the 0-5v to jb4 is not necessary. What I had read from Terry is that jb4 picks up E content via canbus. Perhaps someone with more direct experience can chime in.

 

[Twinz]

I put up a Flex Fuel guide thread for the Jb4 guys over at N54T. Hopefully, it will help.

 

[int_c0m8U$tion]

I put up a Flex Fuel guide thread for the Jb4 guys over at N54T. Hopefully, it will help.

Hello,

What is the benefit of using the motive flex box along with the fuel it Bluetooth eca! My understanding is you can connect the fuel it Bluetooth eca directly to pin 16 of the dtml and be done (set the fuel it to output a 0-5v signal) and you are done. This way the jb4 receives the signal directly from the dme and MHD BEF is using the information to make the flex fuel adjustments.

 

[fmorelli]

Hello,

What is the benefit of using the motive flex box along with the fuel it Bluetooth eca! My understanding is you can connect the fuel it Bluetooth eca directly to pin 16 of the dtml and be done (set the fuel it to output a 0-5v signal) and you are done. This way the jb4 receives the signal directly from the dme and MHD BEF is using the information to make the flex fuel adjustments.

I run Motiv flexfuel on a Fuel-it setup with the bluetooth dongle. I just find it convenient to see the E content on my phone, as well as the fuel temp under the car.

 

[JoeyB718]

I run Motiv flexfuel on a Fuel-it setup with the bluetooth dongle. I just find it convenient to see the E content on my phone, as well as the fuel temp under the car.

How do you have the 2 wired up together (motiv box and bluetooth dongle)?