Index 12 failure

[IQraceworks]

I know it was the DI injector that caused the rod to bend. My question was are these counterfeit injectors. I was told the are old index 12's from 2015. How can you determine manufacturing date of these injectors?

Not sure on the date codes. All the fake china ebay injectors I've seen have bright white lettering on them, and the calibration numbers are the same on every injector. The ones you posted pictures of sure look OEM...real. But, just because they are read OEM index 12's, doesn't mean they can't fail.

If you search google, you can find lots of pictures comparing real vs. fake N54 injectors.....just as a reference.

 

[SLOWESTN54]

Let us take another route. It is called "Thinking".. Not something you will find in your FB research.

The internet says an s55 injector from Kies (first result i found. Can be wrong) can flow around 22g/s @ 100 bar (1450psi). Let us just assume this is the max flow.
What is the remaining volume at TDC? I have no idea.
1 liter of pump fuel weights around 720 to 775grams. So 22 grams are around 30ml of pump fuel. So as soon you hit 1450psi or more you are constantly injecting 30ml of fuel into your combustion chamber. Yeah. Most will leave unburned through the ex valve. But only so much possible.

Now.. Why do you assume high rpm? Hydrolock and stuck open injectors are not a thing during high rpm. This can happen any time. It happened most likely happened when hitting WOT and fuel was just filling the cylinder.

My guess with thinking about the issue is.. It wasn´t high RPM but if an injector failed and was stuck open it is ALWAYS injecting fuel without any PWM operation.

Now.. Still something you can´t imagine?

Remember your talking to the guy that was bragging about his leaking injectors here, then was confused when piston said bye bye.

 

[SLOWESTN54]

I know it was the DI injector that caused the rod to bend. My question was are these counterfeit injectors. I was told the are old index 12's from 2015. How can you determine manufacturing date of these injectors?

As Carabuser said your injectors seem legit, i also had a index 12 stick open, but luckily for me it wasn't bad enough to flood the cylinder.

 

[IQraceworks]

Remember your talking to the guy that was bragging about his leaking injectors here, then was confused when piston said bye bye.

Bragging about leaking injectors? Huh? You guys are a bunch of clowns. Time to add you to the ignore list.

 

[802Gst]

Seems like the n54 direct injectors have many correlations with common rail diesels. I have two high powered 3rd Gen Cummins trucks besides my n54 and on that platform injectors are also a problem. Same with the lb7 Duramax. All 3 of these are first generation common rails (n54 being gas but same concept). Anyway on the Cummins we will go through injectors about 100-150k miles before problems arise. Same type of issues, leaking nozzles, internal seals, cracked bodies etc. One thing we figured out early on was filtration was key to injector life. I wonder if this correlates to these injectors. Aside from being pizeo vs solenoid, the rest of the injector seems similar. Shoot an lb7 injector looks pretty similar to an n54. We also started using 2 stroke oil in our diesel because ultra low sulfur diesel is dry and ruins injector internals. Diesel injectors and cp3 pumps (hpfp) require lubricity in the fuel to lube the metal parts. We had problems early on with people running dual pumps and blowing injector tips, blowing solenoids off etc because of excessive rail pressure.

Anyway if you are still following my rambling here lol I couldn't help but comment about the similarities. I imagine e85 is hell on pumps and injectors. I'm curious if anyone has tested better filtration? Is e85 typically a dirty fuel? I know diesel certainly is, especially in the US. It's known that our fuel is shit compared to Europe. And being that our fuel system is designed in Europe, shit fuel quality isn't what they have to work with. On my truck Chrysler in all their cheapness installed a 10 micron fuel filter, and Bosch requires 2 micron. So naturally we had lots of injector problems until we started using 2 micron filtration. Anyway long time lurker here but this is my first post. Hopefully this made some sense

 

[IQraceworks]

Yep......diesel injectors seem to always have issues too. The 6.0 in my F250 uses the HEUI type injectors that actually operates off of high pressure oil. Dirty oil, and low fuel pressure it what eats those injectors up. At least the diesel injectors are somewhat affordable if you have to replace them, not like the $400+ each N54 index 12 injectors.

To comment on your post, from what I've seen, and after talking to a few of the big injector shops that "attempt" to service these N54 injectors, it seems the main issue with them is that they are piezo type injectors...simple as that. Not sure if you are familiar with how they work, but basically, they pass an electric current through a stack of piezo crystals to get them to expand, and that opens the needle inside the injector to meter the correct amount of fuel. Over time, the crystal degrade, swell up, and don't respond properly to the electric current...causing all kinds of lean and/or rich conditions with fueling.

And, unfortunately, from what all the injector places have told me, there isn't a single shop that has the ability to recharge/restore the piezo crystal stacks. I think the Injector shop says they can "restore" the crystal stack, but it sounds like it's basically just cleaning things. And even after that, if they can't hit the proper flow rate on the injectors...they are trash.

It's just a finicky, expensive to manufacture, and an extremely complicated design for an injector. That's why BMW went with solenoid type injectors on motors like the B58...and ditched the piezo injectors. I think all their diesel motors use solenoid type injectors now also..but I could be wrong.

And then take into account that these N54 engines have been out for 16+ years....so there are lots of older (and fake) injectors floating around out there.

I wish someone would come out with an affordable aftermarket injector that would be plug-n-play...but I doubt that will ever happen.

But to your point....YES, I'm sure dirty fuel cause issues with the injectors. There isn't much of a fuel filter setup on these cars. A small filter on the LPFP, and a small little screen on the HPFP. No big pleated fuel filter like on most cars and trucks.

Lots of great info here ......
https://theinjectorshop.com/blogs/news/bmw-piezo-injector-service-faqs

https://injector-rehab.com/knowledg...ons-for-piezoelectric-fuel-injector-cleaning/

 

[wheela]

Yep......diesel injectors seem to always have issues too. The 6.0 in my F250 uses the HEUI type injectors that actually operates off of high pressure oil. Dirty oil, and low fuel pressure it what eats those injectors up. At least the diesel injectors are somewhat affordable if you have to replace them, not like the $400+ each N54 index 12 injectors.

To comment on your post, from what I've seen, and after talking to a few of the big injector shops that "attempt" to service these N54 injectors, it seems the main issue with them is that they are piezo type injectors...simple as that. Not sure if you are familiar with how they work, but basically, they pass an electric current through a stack of piezo crystals to get them to expand, and that opens the needle inside the injector to meter the correct amount of fuel. Over time, the crystal degrade, swell up, and don't respond properly to the electric current...causing all kinds of lean and/or rich conditions with fueling.

And, unfortunately, from what all the injector places have told me, there isn't a single shop that has the ability to recharge/restore the piezo crystal stacks. I think the Injector shop says they can "restore" the crystal stack, but it sounds like it's basically just cleaning things. And even after that, if they can't hit the proper flow rate on the injectors...they are trash.

It's just a finicky, expensive to manufacture, and an extremely complicated design for an injector. That's why BMW went with solenoid type injectors on motors like the B58...and ditched the piezo injectors. I think all their diesel motors use solenoid type injectors now also..but I could be wrong.

And then take into account that these N54 engines have been out for 16+ years....so there are lots of older (and fake) injectors floating around out there.

I wish someone would come out with an affordable aftermarket injector that would be plug-n-play...but I doubt that will ever happen.

But to your point....YES, I'm sure dirty fuel cause issues with the injectors. There isn't much of a fuel filter setup on these cars. A small filter on the LPFP, and a small little screen on the HPFP. No big pleated fuel filter like on most cars and trucks.

Lots of great info here ......
https://theinjectorshop.com/blogs/news/bmw-piezo-injector-service-faqs

https://injector-rehab.com/knowledg...ons-for-piezoelectric-fuel-injector-cleaning/

A lot of the s55 guys running e85 have started using this Bend Calibration flex fuel kit, which comes with this nice looking Injector Dynamics fuel filter:

BMW F8x Ultimate Flex Fuel Kit — Bend Calibration

Bend Calibration Flex Fuel Kit FAQ's This kit will also plug right into your stock BMW fuel lines and includes the ID F750 fuel filter is the best on the market. We've been tuning ethanol fuels since the mid 2000's and have the experience to say this definitively. It also includes CAD designed and

www.bendcalibration.com

ID F750 Fuel Filter | Injector Dynamics

 

[IQraceworks]

Yeah, that looks nice! I'm sure if someone came up with a simple aftermarket fuel filter setup for the N54's.....they would sell plenty of them. Pretty much the only filter we have on our cars is that cheap little filter screen that snaps onto the bottom of the LPFP. A nice big canister filter would be great!

 

[SlowE93]

Remember your talking to the guy that was bragging about his leaking injectors here, then was confused when piston said bye bye.

Lets not forget all the people that genuinely asked for help on different forums and he acted like a total dick.
It's OK for him to act that way but not my boy John?

 

[Racetune]

I've had an index 12 injector fail on my S63 and the computer went into persistent limp mode. It would notice something is wrong straight away and I had to change 1x injector to the Vitesco from FCP Euro. 3hr install, calibrated with ISTA - back in business.

The Chinese / Amazon repro injectors are junk and will cause issues. You cannot reco these injectors properly and safely without them having issues down the track. The Chinese tend to laser wipe the info and then re-laser their own junk data and logo etc on ultrasonic cleaned lower index injectors.

Oh, on the topic of injectors, I successfully changed one Index 6 to an Index 12 injector as a replacement on my sisters N54 335i - I entered the calibration data as per normal on ISTA and it's been working for over 30,000kms. Other people seem to have had the same success. The ECU doesn't know what index it is - it just needs the calibration data. The ECU has the ability to add or subtract fuel based on individual cylinder trim via lambda and it's smart enough to know which cylinder or bank is running lean as well. As long as the Cal data is within spec, it will trim accordingly.

 

[IQraceworks]

I've had an index 12 injector fail on my S63 and the computer went into persistent limp mode. It would notice something is wrong straight away and I had to change 1x injector to the Vitesco from FCP Euro. 3hr install, calibrated with ISTA - back in business.

The Chinese / Amazon repro injectors are junk and will cause issues. You cannot reco these injectors properly and safely without them having issues down the track. The Chinese tend to laser wipe the info and then re-laser their own junk data and logo etc on ultrasonic cleaned lower index injectors.

Oh, on the topic of injectors, I successfully changed one Index 6 to an Index 12 injector as a replacement on my sisters N54 335i - I entered the calibration data as per normal on ISTA and it's been working for over 30,000kms. Other people seem to have had the same success. The ECU doesn't know what index it is - it just needs the calibration data. The ECU has the ability to add or subtract fuel based on individual cylinder trim via lambda and it's smart enough to know which cylinder or bank is running lean as well. As long as the Cal data is within spec, it will trim accordingly.

N54 Index 12 injector in an S63? Huh?

 

[KClemente]

N54 Index 12 injector in an S63? Huh?

Yup. First gen S63's used in the E70 and E71 M's. Not excited if/when one of mine goes out.

Fun fact: you have to remove the injectors to replace the valve cover gasket and pull the motor if you want to walnut blast the intake vales

 

[IQraceworks]

Yup. First gen S63's used in the E70 and E71 M's. Not excited if/when one of mine goes out.

Fun fact: you have to remove the injectors to replace the valve cover gasket and pull the motor if you want to walnut blast the intake vales

I thought the E70 and E71's had the 3.0L N52 engines in them. They don't use the same piezo type injectors as the 3.0L N54 does.....right?

 

[KClemente]

I thought the E70 and E71's had the 3.0L N52 engines in them. They don't use the same piezo type injectors as the 3.0L N54 does.....right?

The 3.0's had the N52. The 4.4's and the M's had N63/S63 with the exact same injectors as the n54.

 

[IQraceworks]

The 3.0's had the N52. The 4.4's and the M's had N63/S63 with the exact same injectors as the n54.

Thanks for the education...I learn something new every day

 

[Racetune]

Yep Early E70/71 had the N63/S63 Twin Turbo 4.4L with MSD85 / MSD85.1 DMEs running the same injectors as N54.

X5M / X6M and X5/X6 xDrive50i Models

KClemente - they are great to drive like most BMWs but not that easy to work on. Injectors were pretty straight forward. Anything to do with intake manifolds etc - need to remove engine. Which itself isn't too bad - it's made to be removed just arduous with all the plumbing and such.

I need to drop the lower oil pan to tighten the oil pump chain as a preventative maintenance and a few other things like change the oil level sensor as I think it reads weirdly. Turbos have the usual oil drain leaks and such - I've got all the goodies delivered from FCP, just no time/CBF to do bother with it lol.

At the moment I'm tossing up between a F82 M4 or M87 M2 if I sell an Aristo and Soarer or perhaps just get a N54 7spd DCT 335I E92 that has the best of both worlds. Limited production models of 08-09 was available in this config in Australia. They are surprisingly cheap, under 20k AUD.