I have been chatting with Shawn the owner of DAW via email.
Unfortunately it turns out he will be out of the state from the 26th to the 9th of November when I will be in town.
There is more...but I don't feel I should post it as it was a private conversation.
I can visit the state whenever I want for work in theory. Privileged of being in sales. I don't think there is much to pursue here in meeting with Shawn. Turbos are machined at a shop and it is 'not for the public', balancing is done out of state, there is no place for me to visit other than a 'sister shop' that does the installs. I don't need to go to a garage, I know what they look like. So, there is nothing to see folks which is what was explained to me via email.
Take that for what it is. Again, if there was something I could actually see in regards to these turbos being 'manufactured' or 'assembled' I would take the time to visit but there is not. Shame. I was hoping my visit would add some validity to all the red flags surrounding the DAW product and the 'mysteriously' deleted E90 post and I always like checking out new products. My friend desperately needs turbos and wants to go twins for money reasons which is understandable and I was kind of hoping all the red flags would be explained or alleviated by my visit and I could give him and the community the 'go ahead' and the DAW turbos are no more risky than the others.
My understanding is like this: The twins are spun out of their efficiency islands on the compressor map where they start to blow lots of HOT air. You need the octane that E85 or meth, that gives you the octane needed to get good numbers. Otherwise you are stuck at 500whp like most upgraded twins are at on 93 octane only. There is not enough octane to offset the predetonation because of the mile high AITs created by spinning turbos out of their efficiency islands. Also, when you spin a turbo out of it's efficiency islands you are putting considerable more stress on it. This will lead to an earlier failure than had it been run not at the bleeding edge. This is why pump for pump a single turbo will likely put out higher numbers as most people are putting on 6266s/6466s etc. basically much larger higher flowing lb/min turbos.They are larger turbos flow more lb/min and are flowing cooler air so they can hit higher numbers pump only or with E85/meth. Lb/min is the easiest way to figure out how much power you can make with a said turbo. N54s are at basically 10HP per lb/min. Hence a 6466 flowing 90 lb/min is known as a 900 hp turbo. A 6266 75 lbs/min usually make 700-800whp on an n54.
Here's the thing. No one correctly sizes a single turbo to match twins. One would argue why would you want to when it costs only a tiny bit more for significantly more lb/min? You would be putting on a fairly small single turbo to match DAWs or anyone else's twins. I'm talking PTE 5858 or GTX3076R or smaller to match n54 twins with larger wheels. Something in the 50-60lb/min rating for turbos.
A TD04HL-15T flows 33 lb/min That is a TRUE TD04 not what DAW sells. So let's say 35 with the larger stage 4 wheels(total guesstimate)? 35 lb/min for a total of 70 lb/min. Almost what a 6266 put out at 75 lb/min. We know a 6266 is good for up to 800whp on the N54. No twins are hitting 800whp except VTTs one off max dyno run. No DAW stage 4s are going to reliably hit 750-800whp. I would guess most of the DAW line up really flow closer to 30 lb/min which would be 600whp. Maybe a bit more with the larger wheels or a bit less with smaller but not a huge difference either way.
Stock N54 turbos flow around 22 lb/min iirc 44 lb/min
Twins combined give you say 60 lbs/min vs 75 or 90 lb/min single turbo the smaller two 30s are going to start blowing hot air earlier as they are pushed harder and out of their efficiency islands and thus have limited headroom because of the Lb/min rating vs a larger turbo.
You could always stick a HUGE turbo on an N54 like a PT7675 1200 HP turbo. The N54 has medium displacement and limited rev rangeto 7k basically. N upgraded blocks are in the 9-12k rev range which allows you to run a bigger turbo on less displacement, see the EVO guys and their dynos on 6266s. You would end up with a very tiny powerband on the PT7675 93 octane but you could hit a very high peak number. Not very useful.
At the end of the day you are using exhaust gases to spin up the mass of the turbine. The bigger the wheel, the bigger the mass, the more lag until the turbo has spool'd
Please anyone feel free to correct any of this if it is incorrect.
Unfortunately it turns out he will be out of the state from the 26th to the 9th of November when I will be in town.
There is more...but I don't feel I should post it as it was a private conversation.
I can visit the state whenever I want for work in theory. Privileged of being in sales. I don't think there is much to pursue here in meeting with Shawn. Turbos are machined at a shop and it is 'not for the public', balancing is done out of state, there is no place for me to visit other than a 'sister shop' that does the installs. I don't need to go to a garage, I know what they look like. So, there is nothing to see folks which is what was explained to me via email.
Take that for what it is. Again, if there was something I could actually see in regards to these turbos being 'manufactured' or 'assembled' I would take the time to visit but there is not. Shame. I was hoping my visit would add some validity to all the red flags surrounding the DAW product and the 'mysteriously' deleted E90 post and I always like checking out new products. My friend desperately needs turbos and wants to go twins for money reasons which is understandable and I was kind of hoping all the red flags would be explained or alleviated by my visit and I could give him and the community the 'go ahead' and the DAW turbos are no more risky than the others.
My understanding is like this: The twins are spun out of their efficiency islands on the compressor map where they start to blow lots of HOT air. You need the octane that E85 or meth, that gives you the octane needed to get good numbers. Otherwise you are stuck at 500whp like most upgraded twins are at on 93 octane only. There is not enough octane to offset the predetonation because of the mile high AITs created by spinning turbos out of their efficiency islands. Also, when you spin a turbo out of it's efficiency islands you are putting considerable more stress on it. This will lead to an earlier failure than had it been run not at the bleeding edge. This is why pump for pump a single turbo will likely put out higher numbers as most people are putting on 6266s/6466s etc. basically much larger higher flowing lb/min turbos.They are larger turbos flow more lb/min and are flowing cooler air so they can hit higher numbers pump only or with E85/meth. Lb/min is the easiest way to figure out how much power you can make with a said turbo. N54s are at basically 10HP per lb/min. Hence a 6466 flowing 90 lb/min is known as a 900 hp turbo. A 6266 75 lbs/min usually make 700-800whp on an n54.
Here's the thing. No one correctly sizes a single turbo to match twins. One would argue why would you want to when it costs only a tiny bit more for significantly more lb/min? You would be putting on a fairly small single turbo to match DAWs or anyone else's twins. I'm talking PTE 5858 or GTX3076R or smaller to match n54 twins with larger wheels. Something in the 50-60lb/min rating for turbos.
A TD04HL-15T flows 33 lb/min That is a TRUE TD04 not what DAW sells. So let's say 35 with the larger stage 4 wheels(total guesstimate)? 35 lb/min for a total of 70 lb/min. Almost what a 6266 put out at 75 lb/min. We know a 6266 is good for up to 800whp on the N54. No twins are hitting 800whp except VTTs one off max dyno run. No DAW stage 4s are going to reliably hit 750-800whp. I would guess most of the DAW line up really flow closer to 30 lb/min which would be 600whp. Maybe a bit more with the larger wheels or a bit less with smaller but not a huge difference either way.
Stock N54 turbos flow around 22 lb/min iirc 44 lb/min
Twins combined give you say 60 lbs/min vs 75 or 90 lb/min single turbo the smaller two 30s are going to start blowing hot air earlier as they are pushed harder and out of their efficiency islands and thus have limited headroom because of the Lb/min rating vs a larger turbo.
You could always stick a HUGE turbo on an N54 like a PT7675 1200 HP turbo. The N54 has medium displacement and limited rev rangeto 7k basically. N upgraded blocks are in the 9-12k rev range which allows you to run a bigger turbo on less displacement, see the EVO guys and their dynos on 6266s. You would end up with a very tiny powerband on the PT7675 93 octane but you could hit a very high peak number. Not very useful.
At the end of the day you are using exhaust gases to spin up the mass of the turbine. The bigger the wheel, the bigger the mass, the more lag until the turbo has spool'd
Please anyone feel free to correct any of this if it is incorrect.
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