Burger Tuning Oil Catch Can Long Term Review

[Rob09msport]

Chris if I get your valve cover I really shouldn't have to plug head ports right If I had rb external low side? I know it's supposed to be simple but with my luck I'd rather not I just want go gc lite I think and never say pcv again after the install so whatever else you tell me to do or buy I will.

 

[Panzerfaust]

Chris if I get your valve cover I really shouldn't have to plug head ports right If I had rb external low side? I know it's supposed to be simple but with my luck I'd rather not I just want go gc lite I think and never say pcv again after the install so whatever else you tell me to do or buy I will.

Does the VTT valve cover have a way of blocking off the head ports completely without tapping them? Or are you just coming to that conclusion since the reason we plug head ports is because of potential VC failure causing leaks into them while running external? Cause the second one sounds like a reasonable assumption, but I never thought about that.

If so then shit, I'll have to move it up my list. I was under the impression the VTT cover was mostly beneficial because you can completely customize your system to the point where you either go full 100% VTA or can retain PCV/Vacuum while still ensuring you never have to worry about positive pressure.

I think people are more afraid of the PCV system than they should be TBH. Rob's whole thing is maintaining factory-like vacuum, but that's not always necessary especially when you aren't running factory-like boost or power levels. People have been happily running 100% VTA systems in all sorts of cars for several decades without issue. I agree with Rob on keeping pcv probably being best for most street driven cars, but if you're the kind of person who can handle a full careless free-flow exhaust and think it smells good or that gas etc smells good (like your typical gear heads do), you'd probably be okay with full VTA too honestly. Yes it smells worse than gas, but it's not going to make you puke every time you come to a stoplight like some people say. We all know certain types of BMW owners can be more of ninnys than other platforms lol, which is why some complain about VTA.

At the end of the day, if your crankcase isn't under positive pressure (easy to avoid on the N54 nowadays), your seals aren't howling and you don't have a straight-up vacuum leak then your PCV system is probably okay and has probably been run by 10k people before you honestly.

 

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

Again, it depends on the config you want to run. There is no "right" way of doing it, it depends what you want; which is why we have a few different diagrams for most common setups, but the more advanced people will piece together whatever they already know they want. The aluminum covers have a thick flange that sits over the holes, for mild boost I wouldn't bother plugging, anything on the aggressive side I personally would, but YMMV.

 

[Rob09msport]

Does the VTT valve cover have a way of blocking off the head ports completely without tapping them? Or are you just coming to that conclusion since the reason we plug head ports is because of potential VC failure causing leaks into them while running external? Cause the second one sounds like a reasonable assumption, but I never thought about that.

If so then shit, I'll have to move it up my list. I was under the impression the VTT cover was mostly beneficial because you can completely customize your system to the point where you either go full 100% VTA or can retain PCV/Vacuum while still ensuring you never have to worry about positive pressure.

I think people are more afraid of the PCV system than they should be TBH. Rob's whole thing is maintaining factory-like vacuum, but that's not always necessary especially when you aren't running factory-like boost or power levels. People have been happily running 100% VTA systems in all sorts of cars for several decades without issue. I agree with Rob on keeping pcv probably being best for most street driven cars, but if you're the kind of person who can handle a full careless free-flow exhaust and think it smells good or that gas etc smells good (like your typical gear heads do), you'd probably be okay with full VTA too honestly. Yes it smells worse than gas, but it's not going to make you puke every time you come to a stoplight like some people say. We all know certain types of BMW owners can be more of ninnys than other platforms lol, which is why some complain about VTA.

At the end of the day, if your crankcase isn't under positive pressure (easy to avoid on the N54 nowadays), your seals aren't howling and you don't have a straight-up vacuum leak then your PCV system is probably okay and has probably been run by 10k people before you honestly.

I belive it doesnt have the passages and Chris just said their is a flange blocking them so I would think their really is no risk since the old risk was mainly a internal crack. I'm thinking I'm right and Chris is being a good vendor and not over promising but his product will deliver on not needing to plug ports.

 

[Panzerfaust]

I belive it doesnt have the passages and Chris just said their is a flange blocking them so I would think their really is no risk since the old risk was mainly a internal crack. I'm thinking I'm right and Chris is being a good vendor and not over promising but his product will deliver on not needing to plug ports.

That's certainly what it seems like, and would be in line with Chris's humbleness honestly lol. I just had no idea it had that feature, that's excellent to know and honestly makes it a much more appealing product knowing it has that feature.

 

[veer90]

LMAO

Rob is one of those people who experiences physical pain when the mere possibility of him not being right exists. Or the possibility of RB products failing to perform or outright failing (cough turbos cough).

And Rob, for the love of god stop fronting like you're the PR guy for a Fortune 500 with the "we" "our" "us" etc etc. Your operation is 2 people including yourself in the middle of Bumfuck, Missouri. Please, continue to ignore me and get that huge backlog of orders out.

Hugs and kisses

 

[veer90]

@langsbr @Panzerfaust let's have a forum twits party, I'll bring the booze.

 

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

I belive it doesnt have the passages and Chris just said their is a flange blocking them so I would think their really is no risk since the old risk was mainly a internal crack. I'm thinking I'm right and Chris is being a good vendor and not over promising but his product will deliver on not needing to plug ports.

For most people with moderate goals (read that: I have a stock motor and plan on letting her last vs. racing dyno charts) you'll be fine without plugging. That said... it's just a better way to plug them mechanically while you're already in the area. It's easy, not really a great reason to skip it. Whenever I get around to actually installing mine (2019?) I'll plug, despite power goals ~600 whp.

 

[Rob09msport]

For most people with moderate goals (read that: I have a stock motor and plan on letting her last vs. racing dyno charts) you'll be fine without plugging. That said... it's just a better way to plug them mechanically while you're already in the area. It's easy, not really a great reason to skip it. Whenever I get around to actually installing mine (2019?) I'll plug, despite power goals ~600 whp.

I just hate the idea of tapping the head I'd almost rather weld a plug in but I know that's prob a bad idea lol. I am curious though why it is nec to tap them is that to be reversible? And thinking about it I guess if block off with grease covered rag as DIY suggests it really is safe and could always use magnet and small vac ext or compressed air to be even safer.

 

[matreyia]

I would suggest anyone who wishes to argue against vendors that have studied and sold hundreds or thousands of orders with periods of updating... that person should first create a better device and make sure it works as he/she understands. Otherwise, it is not logical for people to listen to him/her vs. a vendor who has done the research and created products.

My experience is that I replaced my stock pvc valve - a small simple unit made of plastic... replaced with RB metal valve and immediately noticed better engine response. Have had it for years and never an issue at all. Still good as when I first installed it. Won't go back to the plastic junk again.

Now how that helps or doesn't help the Burger Tuning OCC, I have no idea and don't care. This thread was to report the OCC performance and long term experience. In summary, it don't matter if you have an OCC installed, you WILL need to walnut blast sooner or later...and it ain't gonna be like years just because you have an OCC installed.

 

[Panzerfaust]

I would suggest anyone who wishes to argue against vendors that have studied and sold hundreds or thousands of orders with periods of updating... that person should first create a better device and make sure it works as he/she understands. Otherwise, it is not logical for people to listen to him/her vs. a vendor who has done the research and created products.

My experience is that I replaced my stock pvc valve - a small simple unit made of plastic... replaced with RB metal valve and immediately noticed better engine response.

I'll address the first part because it's so clearly directed at me - if we aren't to question vendors, then we'd have rampant EMP tunings, JP Werks, Hexon's, etc running around.

It has nothing to do with "making a better product than them first, otherwise the vendor is right" - that's the worst line of thought you could have. If you want to wear the blinders and ballgag just because Rob says to, go right ahead. Those others of us who continue to question and search for answers no matter what have both improved other consumer's quality of life, and improved vendor's products.

As for the second and third parts of your post, well, it's clear you're the one who shouldn't be pointing fingers about understanding a product before commenting on it. In no way, shape or form will a PCV valve improve engine response (which I you're using here as meaning "better throttle response"), but what it should do is keep contamination out of places it isn't supposed to be. THAT'S what it has to do with an OCC, and that's why people want to run an external PCV setup with a catch can installed in-line on the low side, kind of like how your BMS can is part of your *CCV* system now.

 

[matreyia]

Yes the post is directed at you.
Yes there was better response after replacing the part. There "shouldn't be" but there was. How??? I have no idea and have no desire to sit here and even try to justify that report. If you don't want to believe there was any performance improvement based on your understanding of the systems on these cars (which I also agree with -there should be no change in performance) - then don't believe it. I am simply reporting my experience. Throttle improved and still is top shape and car runs more stable with no other mods. Shouldn't be so...but it is.

In order to prive RB right or wrong, simply get all the tools you need to make the proper tests. Don't waste your time and argue over it if you are going to use inaccurate methodologies. Some things don't require expensive machines to test, and some do.

Obviously this subject yields different results for you and RB, so equalize all factors and use proper tools to make objective analysis. Blowing into the unit obviously won't be the same as using whatever instrument they are using. The principals may be the same but that is not enough obviously since you have different results than RB.

In short, you are right - i don't know wtf is going on or how the system fully works in synchronicity wholly...all I can do is report my observations on my car. It would be insane if I used my observations on my car to debate, promote, or denigrate your experience on your car or this vendor's product. Who knows what the hell is going on with every single thing in any car to cause certain issues. No system is an island and what appears to be simple isolated could be caused by some totally unconnected device which engineers did not even foresee. A totally unrelated system can potentially initiate a causal chain that can affect another system directly or indirectly.

Anyone who habitually thinks "this or that can't be the issue" because of theoretical relationships is in danger of dismissing reality in front of their eyes

 

[matreyia]

Before replacing the stock pcv, I noticed a shit load of oil leaking at that connection...not just small drips but abnormal amounts even for layman's eyes.

Ever since replacing with the upgraded part, zero leaks at that point and better throttle response. I ask you, was that coincidence or could there have been valve cover internal vacuum off balance that could have had a causal chain which resulted in the car compensating for improper vacuum/pressure state due to the leaky area. If oil leaks then it is certain air can leak more because it is way thinner.

How would improper crankcase pressure or vaccum affect car behavior? I would guess that performance would be affected and in extreme cases, you would get an error code or even limp mode if enough aggressive driving was being applied.

 

[Rob09msport]

I would suggest anyone who wishes to argue against vendors that have studied and sold hundreds or thousands of orders with periods of updating... that person should first create a better device and make sure it works as he/she understands. Otherwise, it is not logical for people to listen to him/her vs. a vendor who has done the research and created products.

My experience is that I replaced my stock pvc valve - a small simple unit made of plastic... replaced with RB metal valve and immediately noticed better engine response. Have had it for years and never an issue at all. Still good as when I first installed it. Won't go back to the plastic junk again.

Now how that helps or doesn't help the Burger Tuning OCC, I have no idea and don't care. This thread was to report the OCC performance and long term experience. In summary, it don't matter if you have an OCC installed, you WILL need to walnut blast sooner or later...and it ain't gonna be like years just because you have an OCC installed.

Can I purchase a better tune from you ?

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

Yes the post is directed at you.
Yes there was better response after replacing the part. There "shouldn't be" but there was. How??? I have no idea and have no desire to sit here and even try to justify that report. If you don't want to believe there was any performance improvement based on your understanding of the systems on these cars (which I also agree with -there should be no change in performance) - then don't believe it. I am simply reporting my experience. Throttle improved and still is top shape and car runs more stable with no other mods. Shouldn't be so...but it is.

In order to prive RB right or wrong, simply get all the tools you need to make the proper tests. Don't waste your time and argue over it if you are going to use inaccurate methodologies. Some things don't require expensive machines to test, and some do.

Obviously this subject yields different results for you and RB, so equalize all factors and use proper tools to make objective analysis. Blowing into the unit obviously won't be the same as using whatever instrument they are using. The principals may be the same but that is not enough obviously since you have different results than RB.

In short, you are right - i don't know wtf is going on or how the system fully works in synchronicity wholly...all I can do is report my observations on my car. It would be insane if I used my observations on my car to debate, promote, or denigrate your experience on your car or this vendor's product. Who knows what the hell is going on with every single thing in any car to cause certain issues. No system is an island and what appears to be simple isolated could be caused by some totally unconnected device which engineers did not even foresee. A totally unrelated system can potentially initiate a causal chain that can affect another system directly or indirectly.

Anyone who habitually thinks "this or that can't be the issue" because of theoretical relationships is in danger of dismissing reality in front of their eyes

Based on your information provided it is probable that your OE PCV valve was not restricting flow at high vacuum levels. This would lead to essentially a vacuum leak similar to that of what an unrestricted check valve would provide. Intake Manifold Vacuum is key to an engine running well, having good response down low, etc.; this vacuum is not an endless resource that needs to be wasted. As stated prior PCV valves are maintenance items, such as spark plugs/air filters/engine oil/etc... they periodically need attention and are extremely cheap insurance to a healthy engine.

Rob

 

[matreyia]

Can I purchase a better tune from you ?

Your joke/sarcasm went over me. Whatever it is you are implying, you should explain better if you want a more clear reaction on my part. Right now, your reply is wasted.

What is it you are trying to say here? More importantly what does this have to do with tuning? In case it relates to tuning, now you see clearly that I am clueless in that end also. All I can do is report on past tuners like Ken, or Twisted etc.

Clarification on any insult would be appreciated.

 

[Rob09msport]

Your joke/sarcasm went over me. Whatever it is you are implying, you should explain better if you want a more clear reaction on my part. Right now, your reply is wasted.

What is it you are trying to say here? More importantly what does this have to do with tuning? In case it relates to tuning, now you see clearly that I am clueless in that end also. All I can do is report on past tuners like Ken, or Twisted etc.

Clarification on any insult would be appreciated.

Your bashing someone else for reporting what they found and they numerous times said that they may have a dud and were trying to get info about how to better his car. No one was saying or Is saying rob isn't the man when comes to pcv.

You have on many occasions done the same and gone further to attack the vendor the tune was just a recent thing. You are captain obvious of this forum all the time and have made many threads that have misinformation .
Obviously it wasn't over your head and according to you, you had no right to bash a tuner if you havent come out with a better tune. I still can't find the matreyia map pack so I'll assume we should all ignore you according to your logic?

 

[matreyia]

Your bashing someone else for reporting what they found and they numerous times said that they may have a dud and were trying to get info about how to better his car. No one was saying or Is saying rob isn't the man when comes to pcv.

You have on many occasions done the same and gone further to attack the vendor the tune was just a recent thing. You are captain obvious of this forum all the time and have made many threads that have misinformation .
Obviously it wasn't over your head and according to you, you had no right to bash a tuner if you havent come out with a better tune. I still can't find the matreyia map pack so I'll assume we should all ignore you according to your logic?

Ahhh.. a defender of Ken. That's the point. The facts of life... I report facts as it pertains to my car. If Ken after 12 tries could not make it work and Twisted on the first try made it work... those are facts. If you don't like it, tough. Now Ken's OTS map works great on MHD... so now what? Am I still bashing him or am I reporting facts as it pertains to my car? What the fuck dude?

You brought this topic here because you are pissed off. This wasn't even about Ken. Hope you're happy to reread my report that pissed you off in the first place. Nothing has changed in regards to facts I reported.

 

[matreyia]

Your bashing someone else for reporting what they found and they numerous times said that they may have a dud and were trying to get info about how to better his car. No one was saying or Is saying rob isn't the man when comes to pcv.

You have on many occasions done the same and gone further to attack the vendor the tune was just a recent thing. You are captain obvious of this forum all the time and have made many threads that have misinformation .
Obviously it wasn't over your head and according to you, you had no right to bash a tuner if you havent come out with a better tune. I still can't find the matreyia map pack so I'll assume we should all ignore you according to your logic?

Exactly how am I bashing Panzer? By suggesting that he go ahead and do proper tests with proper equipment to really get apples to apples data? Do you see any of my posts calling people names or using sarcastic insults like you? No. If you disagree then simply explain it and point it out. We are all grownups here and shouldn't throw fits if someone writes something that is not congruent with our experiences. If you have had excellent custom maps from Ken or anyone else, then recommend him and be happy. I have heard legendary rhings about him and that is why I chose him for the first person on the first place. Unfortunately it didn't work out for whatever reason. Them's the breaks. So what?

 

[Rob09msport]

I dont run a wedge tune and see how you feel right now that's my point I personally have nothing against you I respected your opinions go through and check I never said anything in that thread. Panzer numerous times said he wasnt attacking rob and likes his products my point was you jumped in attacking someone for sharing their experience as you would say wtf dude . The great thing about spool street is it's supposed not be toxic like e90 .