Anyone ever seen a head gasket do this?

[IQraceworks]

Has anyone seen anything like this before? Freshly rebuilt engine, head and block were flat and clean, 20ra surface finish. New oem Elring head gaket, oem head bolts, and all torqued per bmw torque/angle/sequence specs. It’s making around 575-ish HP at 25psi on E40…nothing crazy.

It runs great, compression is good, plugs look great, idles nice and smooth, logs look perfect, no smoke out the exhaust…..runs perfect. BUT….I noticed when I changed the break-in oil at 500miles, that it was using a little bit of coolant, and had the typical milky stuff under the oil cap. I would have thought that it was just condensation, but since it’s using coolant (and it’s not leaking out anywhere). ..I figured it’s a sign that there might be coolant in the oil.

I thought I might have gotten a bad OFHG, and it was leaking coolant into the oil, but when I pulled it off to replace it…it looked great (put a new one in anyways).

When I had the intake off….I noticed this. Anyone ever seen anything like this? It’s like coolant has been seeping out between the layers of the head gasket. Not dripping down…..just oozing out from the gasket itself.

Did I just get a bad head gasket? I’m pretty frustrated after all the time and money I put into this new engine that I’m going to have to pull the head off again.

 

[rev210]

So sorry to hear buddy. That's likely just really bad luck with either a small fault in the gasket or the slightest amount of head lift when you were beating on it. Might have just been one big pull or the accumulation of multiple. Either way, it's a head gasket failure and it's going to get worse sadly.

For the fix, consider you are making way more power than the stock head gasket system was designed for. So stock clamping isn't sufficient.
Ideally, next time round you want more head bolt torque available with a gasket that is up for it at the power levels where I think we have seen enough stock head/ gasket folk lifting the head.

The ghetto hail mary fix is to try and squeeze some extra ft/lbs of torque into the stock head bolts over the stock specs (which risks different problems like snapping). Not sure what the stock bolts limits are unless folk have tested it maybe 5-10ft/lb more might be all you get? More clamp might fix it but, typically if the gasket has properly failed even in a small way its going to eventually blow out properly and ruin the party.

 

[Maroon_e90]

I have no issues with the elring gasket on my fresh build but im only at 500ish whp. Also I just dont think the stock head bolts are good enough unfortunetly they are torque to yield and I think have an ability to stretch. Thats why I went with ARP for the head studs hoping they help keep the elring gasket together.

If you still suspect bad gasket on teardown I hear cometic is pretty good quality.

TLDR IMO its not the gasket but the fasteners.

 

[IQraceworks]

I have no issues with the elring gasket on my fresh build but im only at 500ish whp. Also I just dont think the stock head bolts are good enough unfortunetly they are torque to yield and I think have an ability to stretch. Thats why I went with ARP for the head studs hoping they help keep the elring gasket together.

If you still suspect bad gasket on teardown I hear cometic is pretty good quality.

TLDR IMO its not the gasket but the fasteners.

The thing that's confusing to me is that it's extremely rare that you ever head about people having head gasket issues on the N54's. People will destroy pistons, bent rods, and crack cylinders before you hear about a head gasket issue. Guys have made 800+hp at 30+psi on dyno pulls without popping head gaskets.....??

So why is a fresh build, with flat head and block, and new OEM head bolts (torqued properly) blowing a head gasket at 550-ish HP and 25psi?

Were the OEM BMW bolts used at the factory made out of a material with a higher tension strength than the OEM BMW bolts you can get now?

Doesn't make sense to me....

 

[Maroon_e90]

Did you lubricate the bolts with light oil or fastener lubriucant?

 

[IQraceworks]

Did you lubricate the bolts with light oil or fastener lubriucant?

I ran a tap down all of the holes to clean them out. Blew them out with compressed air. Used light oil on the bolt threads, and ARP lube on the top face of the washers were they meet the bolt heads. Then went through the proper sequence and bolt torque/angle process.

 

[Maroon_e90]

yeah that blows, its just darn near impossible to replicate how they do it in the factory. they even back them all off after first torque then retorque before they stretch the bolt.

 

[IQraceworks]

yeah that blows, its just darn near impossible to replicate how they do it in the factory. they even back them all off after first torque then retorque before they stretch the bolt.

What a pain in the butt.....so basically no way to duplicate what they do in the factory I guess.

Guess head studs are in my future.....not going to put a new head gasket in, and new oem bolts, if there is a decent chance it's going to do the same thing a second time. At least with studs I can torque them to a set value, instead of all of that angle crap BWM makes you do.

 

[rev210]

The thing that's confusing to me is that it's extremely rare that you ever head about people having head gasket issues on the N54's. People will destroy pistons, bent rods, and crack cylinders before you hear about a head gasket issue. Guys have made 800+hp at 30+psi on dyno pulls without popping head gaskets.....??

So why is a fresh build, with flat head and block, and new OEM head bolts (torqued properly) blowing a head gasket at 550-ish HP and 25psi?

Were the OEM BMW bolts used at the factory made out of a material with a higher tension strength than the OEM BMW bolts you can get now?

Doesn't make sense to me....

Among all the more common failures ,N54s can lift heads with stock sealing kit for sure. Think of it as a cylinder pressure event beyond the cope level. Gasket says " Nope" when you exceed its limit. Same goes for stock ring gap/piston ringlands, rod hardware etc.

People with the unqualified 'no-lag look at all my torque tune' are as common as the engine failures and disappointing performance times in pretty much any car community.
The easiest way to minimize it is to deliberately tune-out big torque in your power curve, especially early, that you can't use or will push breaking stuff.
This not only is more friendly to holding engine together within its build limits but, also lessens carnage to the drive train (gearbox /diff/axles)

Let's face it N54s make too much for stock drivetrains to put onto the ground, so you are helping make the car quicker at the same time. Have as much torque and when it comes in rev wise to match the cars ability to use it. Drag setups with sub 1.5s all bets are off , you live with breakage and that's your life.

I have lots of torque pulled out of my present tune for the 10 second e92. So that it's actually fast and to importantly save the stock low mile unopened internals for at least a little longer lifespan

 

[jzx_andy]

Did you timesert the stud threads? I have heard of reassembled n54's being prone to head lift issues in cases where the aluminium threads weren't sorted out. I suppose the aftermath of minor head lift would look similar to a problematic head gasket.

 

[IQraceworks]

Did you timesert the stud threads? I have heard of reassembled n54's being prone to head lift issues in cases where the aluminium threads weren't sorted out. I suppose the aftermath of minor head lift would look similar to a problematic head gasket.

No timeserts. The threads were all in perfect shape, I ran a tap down all of them just to check them out and clean them up. No issues at all, nice and clean. Can't believe I would have "lifted a head" at 25psi. I've been running the same setup for almost two years before I rebuilt the engine...never had a single issues with the original head gasket. Just doesn't make sense that these things are so bulletproof with the original head gasket from the factory, but so touchy and weak when you install a fresh OEM head gasket on them.

 

[rev210]

No timeserts. The threads were all in perfect shape, I ran a tap down all of them just to check them out and clean them up. No issues at all, nice and clean. Can't believe I would have "lifted a head" at 25psi. I've been running the same setup for almost two years before I rebuilt the engine...never had a single issues with the original head gasket. Just doesn't make sense that these things are so bulletproof with the original head gasket from the factory, but so touchy and weak when you install a fresh OEM head gasket on them.

Are you running a tune that sees you making 25 psi as early as possible?
With a ramp up in boost curve/spool like a vertical line?
You can check your logs/ look at the dyno.
25psi tunes aren't all the same. If you are slamming all the 25psi boost/power/torque early, it's significantly higher cylinder pressure than tapering it up and then at the peak down a snick. This also means the occasional unforseen boost spike is so much worse too.
From what I can see you did everything spot on and instead of lunching the piston assembly you just blew the weakest link.
I have a kill tune that has 30psi on E85flex with the pure stg2 and although it's tapered I fully accept head lift as the best possible damage outcome.

Just go the ARPs/more clamping pressure. If you have forged kit then cutting ring (If you trust the bottom end).

 

[jzx_andy]

No timeserts. The threads were all in perfect shape, I ran a tap down all of them just to check them out and clean them up. No issues at all, nice and clean. Can't believe I would have "lifted a head" at 25psi. I've been running the same setup for almost two years before I rebuilt the engine...never had a single issues with the original head gasket. Just doesn't make sense that these things are so bulletproof with the original head gasket from the factory, but so touchy and weak when you install a fresh OEM head gasket on them.

I think it's a real possibility. Has happened many times on rebuilt n54s at fairly tame power levels - NOT unopened n54s. I think zeroto60 has documented it on a relatively mild build with upgraded twins, after pulling the head off and reassembling it.

The theory is the aluminium threads on a reassembled n54 just won't anchor as well as they did when the engine was assembled at the factory the first time around. Pulling head studs out of the block is the problem, not stretching them or breaking them.

Anyway I hope for your sake it's a much smaller problem. If you do end up pulling the head off I would strongly suggest timeserting the block.

 

[Jern54]

Timeserts on the 4 outer corners is adviced but absolutely not on all 14 holes! You will end up with a cracked block Iwo the water jackets.

 

[IQraceworks]

Among all the more common failures ,N54s can lift heads with stock sealing kit for sure. Think of it as a cylinder pressure event beyond the cope level. Gasket says " Nope" when you exceed its limit. Same goes for stock ring gap/piston ringlands, rod hardware etc.

People with the unqualified 'no-lag look at all my torque tune' are as common as the engine failures and disappointing performance times in pretty much any car community.
The easiest way to minimize it is to deliberately tune-out big torque in your power curve, especially early, that you can't use or will push breaking stuff.
This not only is more friendly to holding engine together within its build limits but, also lessens carnage to the drive train (gearbox /diff/axles)

Let's face it N54s make too much for stock drivetrains to put onto the ground, so you are helping make the car quicker at the same time. Have as much torque and when it comes in rev wise to match the cars ability to use it. Drag setups with sub 1.5s all bets are off , you live with breakage and that's your life.

I have lots of torque pulled out of my present tune for the 10 second e92. So that it's actually fast and to importantly save the stock low mile unopened internals for at least a little longer lifespan

Are you running a tune that sees you making 25 psi as early as possible?
With a ramp up in boost curve/spool like a vertical line?
You can check your logs/ look at the dyno.
25psi tunes aren't all the same. If you are slamming all the 25psi boost/power/torque early, it's significantly higher cylinder pressure than tapering it up and then at the peak down a snick. This also means the occasional unforseen boost spike is so much worse too.
From what I can see you did everything spot on and instead of lunching the piston assembly you just blew the weakest link.
I have a kill tune that has 30psi on E85flex with the pure stg2 and although it's tapered I fully accept head lift as the best possible damage outcome.

Just go the ARPs/more clamping pressure. If you have forged kit then cutting ring (If you trust the bottom end).

No, my tune is setup to reduce the torque in the mid range to keep things safe on the engine. It builds boost in the top end of the RPM range. The logs all look great. The car went 10.90's at 128mph multiple times down the track before it finally cracked a piston ringland.

 

[IQraceworks]

Any tips and tricks for pulling the head off while the engine is still in the car? Not wanting to mess with pulling the entire engine out again. I'm assuming I can just pull the intake, the turbos, and the head should come right out? Looks like there is enough clearance where it shouldn't be an issue.

 

[IQraceworks]

Was doing some research on the forums, and I found another guy who just recently had an issue with the Elring head gaskets. Sounds like they might have had a batch of gaskets go out that were missing one of the layers, and possibly some of the sealing rings on them.

So I'm guessing I just got one of those bad gaskets.......time to pull the head off....AGAIN!

 

[SLOWESTN54]

Or maybe we warned you not to use a Elring head gasket after it's failures are well documented and you still did

 

[JohnDaviz]

Or maybe we warned you not to use a Elring head gasket after it's failures are well documented and you still did

i think we warned him also about stock bolts and rather taking studs... but.. yeah..

 

[SlowE93]

i think we warned him also about stock bolts and rather taking studs... but.. yeah..

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